Info Two New Dive Computers from Scubapro for 23! LUNA 2.0 (with & without Air Integration with GF) with aggressive pricing

[Belzelbub]

You set your M-values to 80% (*), you overshot them to 90%, as far as the model is concerned, you are over the M-values. You are bent, there is no "dive safely" from this point on.

I disagree. I’m only bent if I surface and have symptoms. If I were to set my computer to 80%, I would do that to have a buffer. If I were to violate that buffer, I’ve violated the buffer. I’m at greater risk of DCS than if I didn’t, but I may or may not be bent.

If you want to continue diving from there, I think the vendor is entirely correct to tell you to go buy yourself a Shearwater. If it were me, I would not want you in my userbase either.

Cool. That’s exactly what I did. I bought a Shearwater and a Garmin. Both companies treat their customers like I alone am responsible for my safety. They provide me with the information to do that dive safely, and to execute a Plan B if the situation dictates.

BTW, I don’t set my computers to 80%. I set them to 95%. But, I use the tools they provide to execute my dives safely. Primarily, SurfGF to customize my safety stop on dives where I was close to NDL. I dive responsibly, and I appreciate computer manufacturers that let me.

 

[Wibble]

You set your M-values to 80% (*), you overshot them to 90%, as far as the model is concerned, you are over the M-values. You are bent, there is no "dive safely" from this point on.

If you want to continue diving from there, I think the vendor is entirely correct to tell you to go buy yourself a Shearwater. If it were me, I would not want you in my userbase either.

*) Not exactly since gradient factor applies to a and b coefficients rather than M-values directly.

So much to unpick here.

1) Bent. As in having symptoms of DCS
2) Your chosen Gradient Factors are nothing more than a finger in the air to approximate your DCS risk.
3) It’s up to the diver to assess the reality of the circumstances he finds himself in
4) The computer measures and considers two parameters: depth and time

As a diver I’ve found myself in a position where I need to cut the dive short because — insert your reason here… — and given the information I have, only I can make that decision. The dumb-arse pocket calculator is in no position to make that call.

So I see someone in difficulty and know my SurfGF is at 90% and help them to the surface. I take no precautions on the surface as I’m not bent. I expect to do the next dive after a suitable surface interval using my dive computer which knows my tissue loadings.

To have the thing brick itself is pathetic. Thankfully I eschew brick-prone dive computer toys and dive Shearwater computers which don’t attempt to nanny me like some far-left BBC news presenter.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

Scubapro is coming out with two new dive computers in 22/23 Winter. One version is Air Integrated and one isn't AI. Both come with a choice of 2 algorithms: Predictive Multi-Gas Bühlmann ZH-L16 ADT MB PMG, or ZH-L16 + GF (Gradient Factor).

Reading the information sheet for these computers, one sees very clearly that they will be direct competitors for the Shearwater Peregine dive computer with added features (especially the AI feature) at competitive pricing compared with the Peregine.

. . .

Is it even a real thing? I tried googling it and find nothing. Online dive stores showing the same funky pic but all universally showing "Not in Stock" ... I look on the SP website and find nothing. The sum total of ALL wrist computers ScubaPro shown at the moment (Sinko de Mayo '23):

It's not something I'd have an interest in. It doesn't even say "Shearwater" anywhere on it....

Is it like vaporware? Did they abort it? Was it an April Fools' prank? It just seems kinda cartoonish. Not only is it nowhere to be found, but when it is, there are no other pictures of the display other than the one with the diver cartoon... No reviews... No videos.... You'd expect that for a substantive new product.

 

[Mod63]

At least in Europe, the G2 Tek is readily available. Just got mine a couple of weeks ago, at what shall I say? It's what I expected as a sucessor to my old trusty SmartTec.

 

[Sevenrider860]

Is it even a real thing? I tried googling it and find nothing. Online dive stores showing the same funky pic but all universally showing "Not in Stock" ... I look on the SP website and find nothing. The sum total of ALL wrist computers ScubaPro shown at the moment (Sinko de Mayo '23):

View attachment 782291

It's not something I'd have an interest in. It doesn't even say "Shearwater" anywhere on it....

Is it like vaporware? Did they abort it? Was it an April Fools' prank? It just seems kinda cartoonish. Not only is it nowhere to be found, but when it is, there are no other pictures of the display other than the one with the diver cartoon... No reviews... No videos.... You'd expect that for a substantive new product.

The Luna 2.0 and Luna 2.0 AI were announced to Scubapro Dealers last year with a planned release date of mid-year 2023. Some people with access to the information that is marked "Confidential – For internal company use ONLY. Do NOT distribute or share with anyone unauthorized to receive." then immediately post the details online. However, the Luna 2.0 and Luna 2.0 AI are now listed in Scubapro's 2023 Retail catalog, so there is nothing secret about them any longer.

I don't have any inside knowledge on ship dates, but if the Scubapro S-Tek announced release date versus actual product availability date is any indication, the planned release date will likely get pushed past mid-year. The products have been announced, but not yet shipped..so I would not expect reviews or videos. I have seen a video about changing the Luna 2.0 battery circulating online...so there is an actual product.

I do have the Scubapro G2 TEK (ZH-L16 GF only ) and Scubapro HUD (ZH-L16 GF & ZH-L16 ADT MB) and I suspect the new Luna computers will operate in similar fashion when it comes to "Locked Out" or SOS Mode in Scubapro Speak.

Both the G2 TEK and the HUD will go into SOS mode, but not based on your current GF or MB setting unless you are diving 100/100 or MB=0. If you miss a stop based on your current GF or MB setting, the computer will switch to a less conservative GF or MB. When you are finally at GF 100/100 or MB=0 and you ascend past a stop for 3 minutes, the computer will go into SOS mode and it is the equivalent of diving the unit in gauge mode. I saw one person say they continue to track N2 in SOS mode, but based on downloaded logs...I don't believe that to be the case. In any event, why bother tracking N2 load if there is no logging or ability to display that information to the user?

I do find that the ZH-L16 GF implementation if the G2 TEK does not match the HUD. It is always a little off. The HUD tracks my Shearwater and Garmin computers almost exactly...the G2 TEK does not. It makes me think the HUD algorithm and G2 TEK algorithms are different in some way.

To add to the rumor mill...I did see a Scubapro G3 on a diver's wrist while in Tulum in April. They say "Pictures or it never happened", so picture of a G3 is attached!

 

[Belzelbub]

Both the G2 TEK and the HUD will go into SOS mode, but not based on your current GF or MB setting unless you are diving 100/100 or MB=0. If you miss a stop based on your current GF or MB setting, the computer will switch to a less conservative GF or MB.

Thanks. That seems like a more reasonable approach than locking out based on violating a user selected buffer.

When you are finally at GF 100/100 or MB=0 and you ascend past a stop for 3 minutes, the computer will go into SOS mode and it is the equivalent of diving the unit in gauge mode.

In-water? Or does it continue to at least try to guide you until you get to the surface?

I saw one person say they continue to track N2 in SOS mode, but based on downloaded logs...I don't believe that to be the case. In any event, why bother tracking N2 load if there is no logging or ability to display that information to the user?

Yeah, I thought that sounded off. I agree. If the info isn’t displayed, or available in the log, then I don’t see how someone can make the statement that it’s still tracking.

 

[Sevenrider860]

Thanks. That seems like a more reasonable approach than locking out based on violating a user selected buffer.

In-water? Or does it continue to at least try to guide you until you get to the surface?

Yeah, I thought that sounded off. I agree. If the info isn’t displayed, or available in the log, then I don’t see how someone can make the statement that it’s still tracking.

I had the HUD go into SOS mode once (my fault I forgot to change the gas from air to Nitrox). When it went into SOS mode it gave me depth and time only. I had set the gas on my Garmin, so there were no issues other than my dives over the next few days all had the HUD in Gauge mode because I never gave it a 48 Hour break.

From the Scubapro User Manual for the G2 TEK:

"Once in SOS mode the G2TEK will lock up and will be inoperable as a decompression dive computer for 24 hours if it was dived in Scuba mode."

From the Scubapro User Manual for the HUD:

"Once in SOS mode the HUD will lock up and will be inoperable as a decompression dive computer for 48 hours."

So depending on the computer you have a 24 or 48 hour lockout and there is no recalculation of stops after you have missed a mandatory stop for 3 minutes. Time to go back to your agency training for missed decompression stops.

 

[stuartv]

You set your M-values to 80% (*), you overshot them to 90%, as far as the model is concerned, you are over the M-values. You are bent, there is no "dive safely" from this point on.

If you want to continue diving from there, I think the vendor is entirely correct to tell you to go buy yourself a Shearwater. If it were me, I would not want you in my userbase either.

*) Not exactly since gradient factor applies to a and b coefficients rather than M-values directly.

HAHAhahahahaaaaaa!!!! Such nonsense....

"You were in a 70 MPH speed zone. You accelerated on your own and went 80 MPH. You are dead. There is no driver safety from this point on. It's entirely correct for your car to not restart for 24 hours."

I want my dive computer to measure what it measures and tell me how it thinks my inert gas tissue loading compares to the algorithm's predictions for deco obligations. I want it to do that at all times, in all conditions. Period.

If it ever stops doing that ON PURPOSE, it has failed me. Specifically, I have been failed by the programmer and manufacturer that developed and sold that computer.

Just like if my gas gauge were to stop working because my car determined that I had exceeded the speed limit. (what? you think I went too fast, so you're going to stop telling me how much longer I can keep going?!)

I'll decide how to dive (or drive). You (computer/car instruments) just do your job, give me the info, and leave the rest to me.

So much to unpick here.

1) Bent. As in having symptoms of DCS
2) Your chosen Gradient Factors are nothing more than a finger in the air to approximate your DCS risk.
3) It’s up to the diver to assess the reality of the circumstances he finds himself in
4) The computer measures and considers two parameters: depth and time

As a diver I’ve found myself in a position where I need to cut the dive short because — insert your reason here… — and given the information I have, only I can make that decision. The dumb-arse pocket calculator is in no position to make that call.

So I see someone in difficulty and know my SurfGF is at 90% and help them to the surface. I take no precautions on the surface as I’m not bent. I expect to do the next dive after a suitable surface interval using my dive computer which knows my tissue loadings.

To have the thing brick itself is pathetic. Thankfully I eschew brick-prone dive computer toys and dive Shearwater computers which don’t attempt to nanny me like some far-left BBC news presenter.

One nit to pick, re: #4. The computer also considers your programmed breathing gas. Yes, I know you know that.

 

[dmaziuk]

"You were in a 70 MPH speed zone. You accelerated on your own and went 80 MPH. You are dead. There is no driver safety from this point on. It's entirely correct for your car to not restart for 24 hours."

Actually, it's more like

You were in a 70 MPH speed zone, you set your cruise control to 55 MPH and drove at 65 MPH. You are now complaining that your leg is tired because you had to press the accelerator all the time.

In what universe can that possibly be the cruise control's fault?

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

Just like if my gas gauge were to stop working because my car determined that I had exceeded the speed limit. (what? you think I went too fast, so you're going to stop telling me how much longer I can keep going?!)

That's why around town, I refill at 300 miles, on the road, I'll make 375 miles. Gas gauge be damned.

And yes, sometimes my speed is 80 mph. (Texas has at least one stretch of road where the posted is 85). Then there are places where that considered the minimum posted limit or you become a traffic hazard.

And no - the truck has a governor on it where (at factory settings) the engine cuts at 100 (tire speed rating limit, supposedly), but when it drops back below 85, engine comes back online. You don't have to sit on the roadside for a day or two.