To the OW divers I "met" at Jackson Blue last weekend

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm gonna agree with John on this one ... in a situation that may be time-critical you evaluate your resources, make what feels like the best decision and act accordingly.

There's a difference between breaking a rule because of complacency and one because circumstances may depend on a time-critical action. In every rescue scenario I'm familiar with, the participants later questioned their decisions and felt they could have made better ones. Perhaps they could have ... but that's the difference between looking at it from the comfort of your keyboard vs having to respond in real-time.

Sounds to me like in this case, the potential risk of John being in there dealing with two unpredictable divers outweighs the potential risk of all those lines disappearing before you made it back to the entrance ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[50Fathom]

Horace Greely a newspaper editor in 1850's once said, "common sense is very uncommon."

Reminds me of this picture:

 

[irishsquid]

...I don't get it. I want to live.......and dive as long as I can. Doesn't everyone feel this way?

Most, but some people are just, ... STUPID.

 

[Bob DBF]

Really scarry that many people think an OW certification qualifies them to make any dive they choose.

It does allow you to make any dive you choose, but it does not guarantee your survival.


Bob
------------------------------
"the future is uncertain and the end is always near"
Jim Morrison

A man's got to know his limitations.
Harry Callahan

 

[JCAT]

Cave Diver and those that were there,

Did these *divers* verbalize what their thinking/reasoning was?....if any thinking was actually involved.

What was their approx age?

 

[drydiver]

Cave Diver and those that were there,

Did these *divers* verbalize what their thinking/reasoning was?....if any thinking was actually involved.

What was their approx age?

Mr BS - I am not going in there
Lead Diver - I know how to dive, I am not an idiot to which CD responded, "well you went beyond the STOP sign, so not the smartest move" (might have paraphrased there)
Other Diver - that was scary, I am never doing that again

no one commented on why they entered

they were young, all in their early 20s I would guess. Sporting Divers Den rental tanks, if I remember correctly . . .

 

[Cave Diver]

Cave Diver and those that were there,

Did these *divers* verbalize what their thinking/reasoning was?....if any thinking was actually involved.

What was their approx age?

No, they didn't state much more than "I'm never doing that again." But I didn't really give them much chance to talk either. I'm guessing the one that stayed out was pretty newly minted. The other two I suspect have been diving a while and this wasn't their first trip into a spring. I didn't get a good look at the boat, but it was a small, blue either fiberglass or metal boat and their tanks had "Divers Den" stenciled around the neck.

I'd guess the two that I got a look at were probably mid 20's, but that's mostly a guess.

 

[Dive-aholic]

The problem is that sign is easily out of the cavern zone at jb (maybe it is right on the cusp). Plus how many people even care when they see those signs

The sign is actually 90 feet from the end of the cavern zone.

'm gonna agree with John on this one ... in a situation that may be time-critical you evaluate your resources, make what feels like the best decision and act accordingly.

There's a difference between breaking a rule because of complacency and one because circumstances may depend on a time-critical action. In every rescue scenario I'm familiar with, the participants later questioned their decisions and felt they could have made better ones. Perhaps they could have ... but that's the difference between looking at it from the comfort of your keyboard vs having to respond in real-time.

Sounds to me like in this case, the potential risk of John being in there dealing with two unpredictable divers outweighs the potential risk of all those lines disappearing before you made it back to the entrance ...

Besides, one of the lines was mine and John was aware of that and knew I was on a surface interval. My line was actually the circuit line (you'll see this in a couple weeks, Bob) John described.

Good to finally meet you, John!

 

[TSandM]

Third, unless you are trained to rescue people, or rescue them in a cave, leave that to the experts.

I would not do a body recovery myself, or go after someone way back in a cave I didn't know very well. But in a case like this, gas may make the difference between life and death. Like the incident a couple of months ago, where the divers were saved by the happy chance that someone testing gear was swimming around the cavern zone, this situation COULD have demanded more than one gas donor. Donating gas is something any cave diver can and should do; coping with a panicked OW diver in the cavern isn't going to be fun, but JB is going to spit you out into the Mill Pond unless you take pains not to have that happen, so you can just hang on and breathe and you should be okay.

Given that there were three lines in, and rescue could very well be time-critical, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have stopped to put another line in, either. After all, the expectation was that nobody was going very far into the cave, and it would be unlikely to find three separate teams happening to exit right when you went in to do a corral and rescue. And if CD knew one of the lines was Rob's, it seems to me completely reasonable to follow it.

In emergencies, you don't always follow rules. You have to do a very fast risk assessment, and decide where the urgency of the situation permits cutting corners you might not cut in an unstressed situation. Of course, the rule of not creating a second victim is ALWAYS in play.

Thanks, CD, for chasing these guys out. I hope they learned something, but the Darwin awards suggest they may not have. But you did what you could.

 

[Dive-aholic]

but JB is going to spit you out into the Mill Pond unless you take pains not to have that happen, so you can just hang on and breathe and you should be okay.

Not entirely true, especially where I ran my line this weekend. The left side of the csvern will push you into a small area where the bottom and ceiling meet, not out of the cavern. Had the OW divers followed my line, they would have lost sight of the opening for several dozen feet and gotten pushed into that area.