XDEEP zen deluxe or standard

[Sascha314]

I think I comprehend the BP/W balanced rig concept but you do not have any weights that can be ditched in an emergency? Not being critical but trying to understand.

If you understand the concept of balance rig, you can understand no ditchable weight.

Basically it means you only have the minimim amount of led to sink with an empty tank.
So you need to be able to get positive buyoncy - in case your bcd/wing catastrophically fail - by the two factors
- weight of non used air
- buyoncy loss of suit due to pressure (very thick semi dry can amount to several kg at 30 to 40m)

Generically you can compensate at least 5kg by fins. So you may calculate.if you need ditchable weights or it.
However not included is, if you want then to be positive enough for rough ocean and waiting for help...

 

[Wallowa]

If you understand the concept of balance rig, you can understand no ditchable weight.

Basically it means you only have the minimim amount of led to sink with an empty tank.
So you need to be able to get positive buyoncy - in case your bcd/wing catastrophically fail - by the two factors
- weight of non used air
- buyoncy loss of suit due to pressure (very thick semi dry can amount to several kg at 30 to 40m)

Generically you can compensate at least 5kg by fins. So you may calculate.if you need ditchable weights or it.
However not included is, if you want then to be positive enough for rough ocean and waiting for help...

Sorry do not understand what you were trying to convey....DIR notwithstanding if you are immobilized underwater due to syncope [CO2 for example] or injury or are out of air and can't make an emergency swimming ascent and are negatively buoyant [wet suit compression for example] you need to establish positive buoyancy to return to the surface...dropping weights to gain a buoyant ascent is the means to possibly surviving...how much droppable weight to carry is determined by depth of dive....do not believe one size fits all and equipment, trim and depth of dive are all in play.

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

if you are immobilized underwater due to syncope [CO2 for example] or injury or are out of air and can't make an emergency swimming ascent and are negatively buoyant [wet suit compression for example] you need to establish positive buoyancy to return to the surface...

You would be dead or drown on the surface whether you have ditchable weights or not. You are also forgetting the tradeoffs - ditchable weights mean you could get seriously hurt due to a rapid ascent.

 

[Wallowa]

You would be dead or drown on the surface whether you have ditchable weights or not. You are also forgetting the tradeoffs - ditchable weights mean you could get seriously hurt due to a rapid ascent.

OK...I surrender...with that logic returning to the surface is optional...no chance of survival if you never surface...

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

OK...I surrender...with that logic returning to the surface is optional...no chance of survival if you never surface...

Ditchable weights need to be by definition easily ditchable. Which also means that you will loose them by accident very easily. If you are not overweighted, that also means you will not be able to hold your last stop and pop to the surface with a significant amount of omitted deco … So most divers tend to not use them and have a backup source of buoyancy (drysuit, DSMB).

 

[Sascha314]

Well I am not arguing about it, but there is truth in it.
If you have say a thick wetsuit you should use some ditchable weights, just say make it 2x 2kg to ditch. That is also what a balanced rig requires. If you are immobilized you cannot ditch either, but it will make it mich easier for the buddy to get you to the surface, even with an additional wing failure, because the buddy has enough spare lift.

But yeah of course everything is a trade off..you will never get a system, that has only advantages and is realistic, and no other risks involved.

In the end if you ditch weight you need to counterinteract that by other means to stop your ascend or make it slow. So that then has the other person to take into account if you need to be rescued.

 

[Wallowa]

Well I am not arguing about it, but there is truth in it.
If you have say a thick wetsuit you should use some ditchable weights, just say make it 2x 2kg to ditch. That is also what a balanced rig requires. If you are immobilized you cannot ditch either, but it will make it mich easier for the buddy to get you to the surface, even with an additional wing failure, because the buddy has enough spare lift.

But yeah of course everything is a trade off..you will never get a system, that has only advantages and is realistic, and no other risks involved.

In the end if you ditch weight you need to counterinteract that by other means to stop your ascend or make it slow. So that then has the other person to take into account if you need to be rescued.

 

[Wallowa]

So many assumptions....but never enough 'what ifs'.....dry suits flood and dive buddy may not be near or able to assist or if diving solo not exist.. solo=self-sufficient; every diver should have "Plan Bs" when faced with an emergency that they can execute without assistance.....loosing a droppable weight can happen, ain't the end of the world; but in all my decades I have only had one weight go on a walk-about without my permission...guessing nowadays instruction on correct response to a 'blow up" [buoyant ascent] is not taught or practiced [flare/exhale]...again, your choice, drown trying to complete a deco stop or go to surface for a chance at surviving. DCI is bad; drowning is worse. ..dropping weights should be practiced , quickly accomplished and easy....if negatively buoyant and you can't drop weight to ascend and other options for surfacing are impossible you better have a buoyant ascent plan.... or you are DRT [Dead Right There]...got to surface to live....

Always risks..... but this is not rocket science...if you don't not have self-rescue options and have practiced them you should not be in the water...at least that is my opinion and I could be wrong...

 

[Sascha314]

Ok honestly I do not get your point. There are circumstances where you need(!) Ditchable weights according to balanced rig. You need to balance the risk of a full drysuit flood without any chance of adding air vs loosing the weight ...your choice.

Anyway: if you say loosing a weight is ot a big deal, you probably could have left that weight out anyway. Then you are in the same situation: you dropped a weight, that was not necessary, so no gain in dropping.

Just to give aome scenario: with a balanced rig you are mostly neutral buyont (descent and ascend otherwise of course) during the dive with a minimal amount of air in your wing/bcd. So now something happens, and you can react. If your wing fails, it will not be a so massive effect (or you may drop a little weight). If you loose your ability to move, you are neutral and a buddy can easily step in.
Now ok you loose wing, drysuit and you are immobile. Yeah then it gets complicated. However you would not be able to drop weights yourself. Your buddy has enough lift to compensate or in worse case cuts you loose.

And again: i was explaining the idea behind, not defending or arguing for or against it. Its getting too offtopic now I guess.

 

[happy-diver]

Dude please....stop questioning and writing stuff relying on memory and recall of things past

So many assumptions....

and spend more time reading what the people are explaining to you, to get a good grip on it

See if you can let them modify your preconceptions

Best wishes