Tipping

[theduckguru]

Ok, Ill bite and adress your specific example, however you're not going to like what I have to say about it..
First off, why should anyones level of income decide what they tip? Is a service provided to someone rich automatically worth more than the same service provided to someone with less money?
Second, she might have "agreed" with you just to get you off her back. Infact a lot of people don't like being TOLD to tip and she might quite well have decided at that point that she wouldn't give anyone a tip, simply becaused it was asked for.

And here's the part you're REALLY not going to like and probably start a lengthy discussion that I cant be assed to partake over.
As an instructor you are in a position to decide wether or not someone earns a qualification. Making sure someone passes because they tipped you while "throwing people who didn't under the bus" could be considered bribery...

Imagine this question in a civil deposition. Have you ever solicited additional payments from substandard students during your classes?

 

[kwinter]

Any instructor who seriously considers themselves as a actual equal to a college professor with perhaps A PHD has a serious self inflated ego problem.Most instructors get paid minimum wage, if they are lucky..some students require more effort and time than others and many instructors are mindful enough to go out of their way to see that the student succeeds.

I am a college professor. You seem to have an overly inflated impression of our pay level. It isn't just class time. It's preparation time, grading time, administrative time, office hours, and extra help time because "some students require more effort and time than others and many instructors are mindful enough to go out of their way to see that the student succeeds." For every hour spent in the classroom there are easily 2-3 hours spent on additional teaching activities. That brings my pay as a college professor down to "minimum wage, if I am lucky."

 

[BDSC]

FIFTH: I offered a somewhat larger (but still small) gratuity to the instructor... who absolutely, flat-out, no-questions-asked refused to accept it.

You know why? Because your instructor is a class act and a true professional. Others here on SB are just like him. It's obvious who on SB is not. Stay away from instructors who suggest or expect a tip because they have to go the extra mile now and then. Pathetic.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I've written on tipping in our two books on diving etiquette, but neither addresses tipping and instructor. I have been tipped for a one on one scuba review, and parents of kids who do the discover scuba pool experience tip sometimes. Tipping is more common, and appropriate, at resort destinations, where it is part of the instructor or DM's or captain's earnings. As far a class and tipping goes, I think if a DM gives you special attention you can tip. But a Starbucks card, or 6 pack of adult beverage may be appropriate. If you have a private class, a gift to the instructor in appropriate, but nit required. But at a dive resort, tips are income to the staff just as much as they are to food servers and room cleaners.
DivemasterDennis

 

[tdtaylor]

I realize all of the passionate responses are good for the posters based on their own personal experiences... and that's all I was looking for. We all, apparently, see things from our own perspective regarding how the instructors and DM's are to be viewed (and, perhaps, valued).

Personally, I recognize that PADI is getting money for the course they require for their certification as the agency. I recognize that the dive shop owner is making a few pennies as well. I have no idea what the instructor is getting paid (if anything... and that matters NOT to me in this regard). I recognize that the DM's are likely to be volunteers "for the love of the sport."

Anyway... here's what happened:

FIRST: my son and I are now certified EFR and Rescue Divers. We are both quite proud of our accomplishments. And while we certainly recognize that we are in no position to go out and get giant red "S"'s tattoo'd on our chests (Superman reference), we do feel that the certification gives us a small bit of peace-of-mind as we find more ways we can give back in this broken world in which we live. If we can help... we're happy to help in the best way we know how.

SECOND: our instructor and the two DM's were absolutely fabulous. We had not met any of them before, and they were great at putting us at ease while giving us very serious instruction and demonstration. We learned a lot from them over the course of 4 days.

THIRD: the quarry was dank and disgusting (though much warmer than I was anticipating). Viz was as close to ZERO as I've encountered. Everything was done by "feel." Air temp was above 90, and we were out there for about 12 hours over 2 days. These guys worked hard (and I'm sure some would say, "That's what they were there for.").

FOURTH: I offered a small gratuity to each of the DM's... Neither of them wanted to accept it (genuinely... not an act). They both looked absolutely stunned that I was even offering them something. Nevertheless, I put it this way, "You are welcome to keep this for yourself and get yourself a nice dinner or some bottles of wine to take home to enjoy with your better halves... or you are welcome to make a donation to DAN or some appropriate marine organization." They both accepted it, but quite half-hearted.

FIFTH: I offered a somewhat larger (but still small) gratuity to the instructor... who absolutely, flat-out, no-questions-asked refused to accept it.

FINALLY: My son and I appreciated VERY MUCH the gentle approach to teaching an important subject. This wasn't just learning how to improve our own skills for the sake of being better divers (though there is certainly an element to that). This was learning skills that could help us help others. From where I come from... there are few things more important than that. We did what we felt was right, given the situation... which, after all, is the first thing we learned in this Rescue course.

We look forward to taking our O2 specialty course in a few weeks... on our way to Master Divers, hopefully within the year.

Jeff

I have assisted many Stress and Rescue classes in this quarry. Worked my backside off for quite some hours. I always get satisfaction out of the pride the students show when they complete the class- and they should be proud. Now should I be paid or tipped? Never have, even though I always receive top marks on the feedback. Was it a lot of work and stress for no pay- yes. I enjoy it so much, and am not dependent on the pay for a living, so I have not worried about it. But the thought has come to me lately that am I undermining those who would depend on the classes for a living. In my former life as a design professional, I detested those that provided services for free. How could one spent a decade getting to the point of providing an excellent service, then give it away. Besides, the give it away free they will pay more later strategy never works.

So I guess my question is, where does that leave us. In my trips to Europe, I often find low or no tips and paying a living wage may be a better way to run the system. Thoughts are encouraged.

Terry

 

[Texasguy]

I think the rule is, you tip DMs but not the instructor. I'd think the tip for DMs is $20 a day for all DMs to share. If it takes 2 days for them to cert you, then $40 for all DMs to share.

 

[scubadada]

Finishing Rescue cert tomorrow. Curious to know opinions for tipping the instructor. What about other DMs who assisted over the 2 days of quarry diving?

No tips for your education, you paid for it already. A beer is not a bad idea if you like them. It's a great idea to have friends in the dive industry, especially if you will come into contact with them in the future.

---------- Post added July 28th, 2014 at 07:12 PM ----------

It's never occurred to me to tip instructors/DMs for class work other than to buy a round of beers after the course or to bring coffee/doughnuts etc. Certainly charter captains/DM's I tip.

Tipping in the US is out of control, perhaps this is a response to nonliveable wages

---------- Post added July 28th, 2014 at 07:21 PM ----------

In all the courses I've taken, the instructors where not the owners of the centers so I've always tipped the instructors... and it's VERY much appreciated. Usually 10-15% of the course fee seems about right.

I'm sure it is appreciated, and probably enexpected. Sorry, but this is wrong.

---------- Post added July 28th, 2014 at 07:33 PM ----------

This has been an interesting, predictable, discussion. Do what you think is right.

 

[oly5050user]

You know why? Because your instructor is a class act and a true professional. Others here on SB are just like him. It's obvious who on SB is not. Stay away from instructors who suggest or expect a tip because they have to go the extra mile now and then. Pathetic.

so an instructor is to work extra hours 1 to 1 with a person who paid for a standard group class because the person is a danger to themselves and others and not be rewarded for their efforts according to you..many instructors are not paid by the hour,only paid per person. So it takes 3 or 4 hours longer to bring someone up to speed and the instructor is pathetic for hoping for a sign of appreciation of a tip. You can love what you do and love to see the look on a students face when they "get it" but that does not pay the bills or put gas in your car.
According to you next time I have a problem student I should not assist them beyond a few minutes but tell them that there is a charge for any extra time they need. I can tell you now that would be a lot more than what any tip I receive would be. Rate to rent a pool here in NY is anywhere from $50 an hr and up, plus the pay rate for the instructor. Do you go the "extra mile" at your job, stay at work an extra 1 or 2 hours and not be paid?

---------- Post added July 28th, 2014 at 06:51 PM ----------

I am a college professor. You seem to have an overly inflated impression of our pay level. It isn't just class time. It's preparation time, grading time, administrative time, office hours, and extra help time because "some students require more effort and time than others and many instructors are mindful enough to go out of their way to see that the student succeeds." For every hour spent in the classroom there are easily 2-3 hours spent on additional teaching activities. That brings my pay as a college professor down to "minimum wage, if I am lucky."

same with scuba instructors. They have prep time,admin time,office hours..Have to transport gear to and from a pool very often. I know pay level of professors. I was married to one that was a psych phd.

 

[BDSC]

You want to be cheap thats fine, just tell the dm's/instructor that you do not reward/tip for excellent care and see where that gets you. You will still get taken care of , but in a standard way. Do not expect favors of additional time if you are running behind in class or have problems with setting up your gear.

So I can see it now. At the beginning of the class you say to the students, "Let me see a show of hands how many of you plan to tip 15 - 20% at the end of class so we will know who to give some extra attention to if needed. And for those who are not going to tip, you better get it right the first time because no extra help is coming your way. You only get the "standard service"."

Do you go the "extra mile" at your job, stay at work an extra 1 or 2 hours and not be paid?

More times than I care to remember. But I don't mind because my company has always been good to me and I have worked hard for them for the past 33 years. And unlike you, I don't come on SB and whine about it. You are, without a doubt, the only instructor I have ever known that has the attitude you have and that's a good thing for the scuba industry.

 

[Hawkwood]

When we have a student who requires more time than is allotted for the class, they pay for that time.

There is enough room in the time we have to provide a little extra time, but 3 or 4 hours? Nope.

They get told they are going to have to come and deal with this privately, one on one. If a student is having that much difficulty, it is going to affect the others in the class.