the truth about diving organizations

[Hoosier]

I used to hear

P ut
A nother
D ollar
I n

not, N.A.U.I. interesting~~~~

N ot
A nother
U nderwater
I diot

There , that aught to do it :11:

J/K ... Sorry , just couldn't help myself

DB

 

[Ron Brandt]

I used to hear

P ut
A nother
D ollar
I n

not, N.A.U.I. interesting~~~~

The phone number is 1-800-PAY-PADI yep it's true.

I have certs from ACUC,NAUI,IANTD and PADI. I only teach for one. The one that's most popular in my area. My origional instructor (1980) was certified to teach 3 of those 4 organizations courses as one of them was not yet invented. He actually geared his course so you could have all 3 and have all bases covered. Do I feel he taught a good course?

Of course, he was my first instructor(note that) and was also a Dean of Engineering at the university and was a sub captain.Do I feel I am a better diver for it? Questionable now,but lots say I am. Quite frankly,I feel I am lucky to still be alive.

Would I like to run a course like that now...you bet,but I don't think my insurance will cover me.

Ron

Ron

 

[MikeFerrara]

I disagree on this point. I don't see the certification organizations setting a tone of overconfidence in their OW courses. If anything the reverse is true and they (in my opinion) emphasize caution, safety and diving within your limits almost ad nauseam.

Well, the text does anyway. But then the shop sells them their first trip and they end up doing 100 ft drift dives right out of OW class. The resort of course is often agency affiliated so it amounts to not practicing what they preach. Just look at the nature of some of the accidents we read about (or see) and see if there are any correlations to the way classes are conducted.

If certification wasn't required, I think people would purchase training when they saw real benefit. The shops and instructors couldn't get away with selling lousy classes to people who don't care because they're just buying the card for access. It's exactly the REQUIREMENT for a card that sells all these cheap short useless classes. Divers should be purchasing training rather than access.

Having a standardized level of training yields benefits that outweigh the drawbacks. I'm sure (for example) the public would feel somewhat unhappy if there was no certification process for airplane pilots.

Ahhh but how would you like it if you went to the gas station to get fuel for your chain saw after having a tree fall in your yard and being told you couldn't buy it unless you showed proof of a chain saw certification? Heck, you don't even have to show a drivers license to buy any fuel. You very well could be using it to gas up a plane. So, why should a shop want to see a certification before selling you air? Don't answer, there's no logic to it. They've just got away with it for so long and it's so ingrained into divers that they don't question it until they have reason too. Then it's too late.

Imagine jumping untrained into your new Cessna 182 and ramping the throttle to full. Who cares about takeoff clearance, flight plans, weather or weight distribution. After all if anything goes wrong you can only bounce so much. Or perhaps a convenient suburb will break your fall...

Actually you could get yourself an ultra-light and fly all you want without a license. Most would still choose to get some flight training but you can fly without the license.

The analogy holds good for scuba. In my opinion the agencies do a reasonable job of saving us from ourselves (and more importantly from hurting others). One could criticize the quality of the instructors or the course content but this does not detract from the general benefit of setting minimum training levels.

Do you need some self appointed agency to save you from yourself? My cousin did a far better job getting me started in diving years before I ever got certified than my instructor did when I finally did decide to buy a card. Sooo many of the other classes I've taken were just formalities to get the cards I needed. Out of the MANY classes I've had to take there have been exactly three that weren't a total wast of time and money.

My normoxic trimix class was good and the instructor was one who helped me figure out that most of what I'd been previously taught was total crap. Well, I had pretty much already come to that conclusion but he really helped me get a handle on it. My cave training was good and taught by a true explorer who does it for real. My advanced trimix training came too late to teach me much about trimix but the instructor is a great diver and the class was good solid training and experience that presented the oportunity to dive with and pick the brain of some one with something to offer. All the rest was just something that I survived. I'll tell you something else. Given the way that I was taught to dive and teach it's a wonder I didn't kill any one in my early teaching days. I really hope that those early students have long since quit diving because I was still teaching it out of the book and the book is hosed.

It's hard to imagine that the dive industry could be much more screwed up than it is and as far as I'm concerned it's preoccupation with certifications (selling access) is at the top of the problem list...followed closely by the fact that they don't have any reason to change it because all the money is in selling equipment so it's "get em in and get em out".

 

[Diversauras]

I used to hear

P ut
A nother
D ollar
I n

not, N.A.U.I. interesting~~~~

Pay
And
Dive
Immediately

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hey drbill,
You may be right. I have heard good things about Los Angeles County certifications.

I get so tired of the old “It’s the instructor that counts” thing (which by the way is true) that I wanted to see what would happen if someone actually picked a side.

I have to say that so far I am very disappointed. :drejnd:

Jeffrey

Well, let me try to help ...

The best agency ???

Gargantuan
Underwater
Egos

... I'm going to crawl back under my bridge now ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Well, let me try to help ...

The best agency ???

Gargantuan
Underwater
Egos

... I'm going to crawl back under my bridge now ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Niiiiiiice....

 

[cudachaser]

I have been certified to to teach thru, NASDS, PADI, MDEA, HSAI & NASE. They most difficult and comprehensive training that I've had was thru HSAI (Handicapped Scuba Association Intl'). I stay current with both NASE and HSAI. NASE works the best for me since I am an independent Instructor. Their quality of materials and customer support is excellant.

 

[Walter]

The standard response that the agency doesn't matter is merely a method of trying to absolve agencies of the responsibilty for having high standards. That dog won't hunt.

Can an excellent instructor make up for an agency with low standards? Yes, but it shouldn't be necessary. Standards should be set high enough so that an instructor following them to the letter will teach an excellent class. Unfortunately, this isn't always the case.

Of course best is a matter of opinion and that will depend somewhat on your goal. Are you looking for a thorough course or would you rather get it fast and learn fewer skills? The answer of which is best will vary depending on your goal. Most people want and get the fast course with fewer skills.

 

[Zeeman]

What car goes faster, red one or blue? I have a headache.

Black. the makers of the SR-71 can't be wrong...

Z...

 

[DiveGolfSki]

N ot
A nother
U nderwater
I diot

There , that aught to do it :11:

J/K ... Sorry , just couldn't help myself

DB

How about:

P lease
A dvance
D eposit
I mmediately

or

I
A llow
N erds
T o
D ive