THE "PERFECT ( being horizontal ) TRIM" HOAX

[Blackcrusader]

Many times the currents and surge around the rocks doesn’t allow for it anyway, it’s a waste of time as the water is never still enough for those techniques to be effective. I am tech trained and had all that stuff mastered by 2002. I’ve moved on.

Going to Raja Ampat this year and some places we will need reef hooks due to currents and surges.
I'm going to get my dive buddies to take photos of all the trim positions I use. Somehow some people think trim only means being horizontal when you trim for all sorts of positions.

 

[chillyinCanada]

There are a few things that can be said about this post so I will begin by addressing what I consider to be the problem.



Ask yourself one question. If perfect trim was not resulting it a "sore neck," would the rest of your post be necessary? It appears that you have the same technique problem that I used to have. People are often mis-instructed when they are taught to either "arch their back" or "pull their head up." In a perfect trim, you should think "relax my spine." This would cause your spine to relax into an arched position rather than being "twisted" into an arched position. It should be a relaxed and calming posture.

Is it necessary to master? No. Most people specially in the recreational domain, dive without it. The have no control of themselves and when a group of recreational divers passes over a dive site, it is like a tornado went over, mucking up everything on its way. If that type of diving is appealing to you then by all means! There are so many of them around and they will accept you with open arms! Post like yours is a music to their ears as it gives them a sense of assurance that I am cool the way I am!

I too can think about a lot of hypothetical scenarios where being horizontal does not have any advantage. After all, none of us can climb a boat ladder when we are in perfect trim right? Once I am on the boat I cant walk to the bench without compromising my horizontal position and above all, UTD Essentials never taught me how to go to the head and pee while being in horizontal trim.

But, at the risk of sounding like a DIR cultist (I am TDI by the way,) I will state that horizontal trim needs to be mastered! You can abandon it when you find necessary AFTER you have mastered it. Why? Because it is the foundational position from which a divers movement should originate and when your movement ends, that is where you should find yourself to be. It enables you to move forward, backward and turn on the same spot without mucking up the bottom. It also enables you to ascend and descend on the same spot without mucking up the bottom.

Give me someone who has not mastered trim. Then ask them to turn around on the same spot, move back ten paces, ascend ten feet like like a helicopter, stop at the target depth and turn or pivot on the same spot without moving forward or backward then do a valve drill while being in that exact same position. This is Clare Gledhill.




I would rather have her precision then someone whose sense of pride comes from the fact that they can be upright in a drift so that they could overshoot someone who is not being swept with the same momentum as they are.

Just a guess on my part, but I suspect that Blackcrusader has his smb shot and without losing depth position long before Clare gets hers out . . .clip, clip clip.

In the Maldives, the dm told me that my line was too long. Mine's the same as Clare's but the dm's is only 15 or 20' with a fisherman's lead weight on it. His worked perfectly everytime and he didn't need any more than what he had.

 

[The Chairman]

Somehow some people think trim only means being horizontal when you trim for all sorts of positions.

We really don't have "OTD" (Obsessive Trim Disorder) and don't like to see what we "think" distorted in this manner. It's frustrating for many of us to see people struggle while on Scuba when they don't have to. We see these 45^o rototillers burn through their gas, struggle with their buoyancy, kick the crap out of our reefs when they get too low, and sometimes hurt themselves as a result of being out of ocntrol. It's not that they won't get horizontal: they just are simply incapable of doing so, except for the briefest of periods. Yet, you defend this as being not only normal but somehow superior to divers who maintain a horizontal attitude through most of their dive? I don't get it.

Don't expect us to swoon at you being in all sorts of positions in the water, either. It just shows that you've missed the entire point or are trying to gaslight us. Years ago, I was asked to listen to a friend's kid play the piano. It was painful. Sure, his fingers banged on the keys, but I don't expect to see him at Carnegie Hall anytime soon. Apparently "Little Johnny" has been playing since he was five, but he obviously did not have a feeling for it yet. I can tell you that he hit every key like a spastic cat in a rocking chair factory, but for some reason, I didn't swoon at that. My immediate thought was that he should slow down and work more on control. No, I didn't voice that thought, but simply grimaced and wished him well. He might have been playing, but he wasn't tickling the ivories. So it is with Scuba. You can simply bang on the keys, or slow down and learn some control.

FWIW, LJ didn't look comfortable while he was on the piano and he obviously wasn't having much fun. It's my guess that he either learned control or he quit. You really can't enjoy Scuba if you're not in control. Learning how to be horizontal is the first step in establishing that. Buoyancy becomes far simpler and you get to concentrate on seeing the critters. All those other positions become easier to get to and maintain when you're in control as well.

As a caveat, I've never dove with Blackcrusader, so I have no idea how in or out of control he is as a diver. That's his business, not mine, but he's probably fine.

 

[Angelo Farina]

@The Chairman you nailed the whole point: CONTROL.
When a diver is in control (of trim, buoyancy, breathing, propulsion, attitude, movement of arms and legs) he can do everything he likes.
Staying horizontal, or vertical, or upside down...
When he has no control, then he will be in the position dictated by external forces: gravity, buoyancy, current, tide, etc.
During my training with the ARO rebreather we had excercises demanding total control of everything and forcing to assume and maintain several different trims: horizontal, for sure, but also many others. Including upside down, walking with the hands on the bottom of the pool while moving the legs in a way similar to "moon walk"..
Only after proofing such total body (and brains) control we were certified...
This a lot of time ago, of course.

 

[EFX]

Somehow some people think trim only means being horizontal when you trim for all sorts of positions.

We really don't have "OTD" (Obsessive Trim Disorder) and don't like to see what we "think" distorted in this manner. It's frustrating for many of us to see people struggle while on Scuba when they don't have to. We see these 45^o rototillers burn through their gas, struggle with their buoyancy, kick the crap out of our reefs when they get too low, and sometimes hurt themselves as a result of being out of ocntrol. It's not that they won't get horizontal: they just are simply incapable of doing so, except for the briefest of periods. Yet, you defend this as being not only normal but somehow superior to divers who maintain a horizontal attitude through most of their dive? I don't get it.

Don't expect us to swoon at you being in all sorts of positions in the water, either. It just shows that you've missed the entire point or are trying to gaslight us.

No, I think YOU missed the entire point.

Now, read this:

I am entirely with you. I often laugh seeing those "tec" divers making significant effort for keeping that unnatural "horizontal trim" position, which was developed for entering caves or wrecks, where there is risk of raising suspension from the bottom, but it is entirely wrong in other situations...
Same for equipment, or other procedures typical of a very specialised way of diving in caves, which are simply meaningless in different environments.
A "complete" diver should recognize the need of adapting everything (procedures, trim, equipment, planning, etc.) to the local situation, which can vary significantly from the one for which the DIR method was developed.

Do you get it now?

 

[Blackcrusader]

@The Chairman you nailed the whole point: CONTROL.

Personally I think that mastering buoyancy control is more important than horizontal trim. Sometimes I see newly certified divers having a terrible time trying to get horizontal but they have not learned how to be neutrally buoyant at the depth they are at. So they are finning to descend when they should release air from the BCD or swimming to fin up when they need more air in their BCD,
My son was always finning and I took the time over a few dives to get him to stop on dives and get his buoyancy neutral for that depth. Then he could worry around trim. Did him a world of good and of course improved his gas consumption.
Being able to trim in any position is not showing off. Many divers cannot do it effortlessly.


A few years ago an instructor told me she would tell her students to watch me on dives.
They remarked how effortlessly I seemed to move in the water without using my fins, how they didn't see me change depth by finning and where is my bubble trail they see from others.

Chairman seems to have missed this point. I can do any position effortlessly because I have mastered those techniques not because I am an out of control diver. I know where all my limbs are and keep them away from other people and corals and things. I do not defend other people who have not mastered themselves, in fact I often help to learn to know where their body parts are and how to learn not to panic fin because they want to ascend away from a reef below them. Just relax, stop moving, if you descend add a little air to the BCD. Learn to use if for its purpose, to control your buoyancy. Maybe also put more space between them and the reef before they get too close. Manage the distance before it becomes an issue.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Breathe it. I rarely have any air in my bcd.

 

[Wibble]

Buoyancy, trim and finning are all interrelated. Changing trim may need adjustments to buoyancy, finning can affect trim and buoyancy of changing depth…

 

[The Chairman]

Do you get it now?

Yeah. You're fine with people kicking the crap out of the reef. Me? Not so much.

If being horizontal takes a lot of effort, you're doing it wrong. You can either figure it out or give up and rail against those of us who can. It's not that hard if you understand the simple physics behind it.

Personally I think that mastering buoyancy control is more important than horizontal trim.

There are a lot of people who don't get how they are interconnected, so you're not alone.

Chairman seems to have missed this point.

I can't tell you how many divers think they are God's gift to diving. They find an instructor with trim even worse than theirs, who gives them a nod, and that bolsters their opinion of how special they are. Most divers think they are competent, even while they kick the crap out of the reef. Again, we've never dove, so I have no idea how good or bad you are. I just know that after all is said and done, there's a lot more said than done.

Trim and buoyancy are incredibly easy to maintain if you approach them logically and understand the physics behind them. Thrust, Center of Gravity, Center of buoyancy, and Archimedes principle all come together to put you in control of your diving... or not. I can only provide the information needed to get your control: the rest is up to you. If it angers you, then take a deep breath and ignore me. I'm OK with that. The physics will still be there. Trim will still affect buoyancy, whether you want to accept that or not. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

 

[Centrals]

Somehow some people think trim only means being horizontal when you trim for all sorts of positions.

LOL
What is the trim for eg. "budda" or vertical ?