Thank heavens for PADI

[-hh]

concollective once bubbled...
So let me ask you NAUI-elites (frankly, the tone is revolting) a question: did you become aware of PADI's alleged inadequacies because you actually underwent PADI training, or did you, in one of your more self-congratulatory moments after you got NAUI training, tell yourself that the training you got just had to be the best as an a priori matter?

I've had training from both. I didn't think anything elite about what I had been taught for many years. What opened my eyes were things that I thought were so basic that they would be universal for all divers.

Case in point: regardless of who you were certified by, what would your reaction be when you're talking about diving with a person who has taken all of the pool & class work, and is about to go for their OW checkouts who says:

"What's a SPG?"

and

"What's a BC?"

I kid you not.

I originally thought it was just the bad luck of a bad instructor and not Agency-specific, but over the years and a lot of conversations, of the many things I've found, one of the dirty secrets in one of the Agencies is that Standards Violations rarely result in the boot, even when the report to QA comes from one of their Instructors, and former QA Investigators at that!

This is when I really realized just what some organization's true priorities are when it comes to decisions that might adversely affect their cash flow and competitive market share...

FYI, historically, the founders of PADI came from NAUI, and a big part of their dispute was because NAUI was organized as a Non-Profit and who listed Education as their first priority. Now NAUI's been particularly stupid of late on a lot of things, but lets not confuse basic business operations stupidity with these issues.

If you've read this far, let me go on to ask: ... I'm very interested in AOW and am looking for the best org to train with. Is there a NAUI proponent out there who can, without all the bull, rhetoric, and arrogance, articulate to me why I should choose NAUI rather than PADI to continue my training?

Simplest answer would be because the NAUI instructor is allowed to exceed Agency standards within his training criteria, whereas a PADI is not.

Similarly, the NAUI Instructor is expected to apply the "Would I allow a Loved One to dive with this indvidual?" criteria, although this generally applies for OW.

FWIW, you might want to check out SSI...I've heard good things about them for years.

However, the quality of training is always going to come down to the quality of the Instructor, and no Agency has a foolproof lock on that factor. There's good and bad within all of the Agencies, and it takes some time and experience on your part to really figure out who's good and who's not.

Case in point:

"Why is my Nitrox computer showing OTU's consumed? I did that dive on air..."

I happened to overhear this ~2 years ago on a diveboat. The scary part was that it was one Nitrox Instructor asking another Nitrox Instructor, and neither had any clue as to why. It gets worse in that the two of them worked for one of those "5 Star" diveshops that was adverising that they would happily accept $250 from you to give you your own Nitrox C-Card. Gee, I think I'll shop elsewhere for quality training...


-hh

 

[Drew Sailbum]

-hh once bubbled...

Simplest answer would be because the NAUI instructor is allowed to exceed Agency standards within his training criteria, whereas a PADI is not.

...

However, the quality of training is always going to come down to the quality of the Instructor, and no Agency has a foolproof lock on that factor. There's good and bad within all of the Agencies, and it takes some time and experience on your part to really figure out who's good and who's not.

-hh

Repeating something often enough does not make it true. PADI instructors are required by standard to "include training information that will prepare them to dive without an instructor after certification." - See PADI 2001 2nd Quarter Training Bulleltin

If a class is taking place at altitude, the instructor is required to teach altitude diving procedures. If a OW student will be using a drysuit on the OW training dives, the PADI instructor is required to provide drysuit training in an confined water session first.

PADI instructors are allowed to add to the curriculum, and even mandated to do so in some cases. Open Water student divers are to be trained to dive independent of an instructor in the environment where the training is taking place. Any PADI instructor who is not doing that is violating standards.

Generally training standards are minimums. Exceeding standards is allowed in a PADI course.

 

[Walter]

Drew,

Why are you speachless? You've known for a long time I have issues with what PADI has dropped from their required skills.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Lawman once bubbled...
If the taste police are going to patrol
ScubaBoard they might skip over to
the thread that asks if you Pee in your
wetsuit.

In the meantime I'll respond to Mike when
he rants about the untrained PADI swine
that endanger us all.

You still haven't gotten around to answering my question but I have another one to add to it now.

When have I ever made reference to "untrained PADI swine who endanger us all"? Above you say you'll respond. I'm waiting.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Drew Sailbum]

Walter once bubbled...
Drew,

Why are you speachless? You've known for a long time I have issues with what PADI has dropped from their required skills.

Walter,

Your statement

While I think that list could be improved, it's not all that bad.

is possibly the nicest thing I've ever seen you write about PADI standards. OK, maybe that and the positive things you've had to say about requiring breathing from a free-flowing reg.

You're not going all soft on us now, are you? <---- Note Winking smilie

 

[-hh]

Drew Sailbum once bubbled...

Repeating something often enough does not make it true. PADI instructors are required by standard to "include training information that will prepare them to dive without an instructor after certification." - See PADI 2001 2nd Quarter Training Bulleltin

If a class is taking place at altitude, the instructor is required to teach altitude diving procedures. If a OW student will be using a drysuit on the OW training dives, the PADI instructor is required to provide drysuit training in an confined water session first.

PADI instructors are allowed to add to the curriculum, and even mandated to do so in some cases...

Generally training standards are minimums. Exceeding standards is allowed in a PADI course.

There's two things in effect here.

The first is the caveat that requires additional material when relevent to local diving conditions.

However, this doesn't mean that a PADI instructor is allowed to include, say, Altitude protocols, when it is not required under the "local diving conditions" criteria, does it?

The second is if such material can or cannot be part of the diver evaluation criteria as a condition for becoming Certified.

Similarly, if the aforementioned PADI Instructor was allowed to do such additional training despite no "local diving conditions" justification, is he allowed to include this additional material in his student testing as part of his certification pass/fail criteria?


-hh

 

[jepuskar]

Now this is getting juicy........



I would love to get all of you around a campfire with some hot dogs, marshmellows, some booze, mosquito repellant, etc.

I'll make the signs to put behind you that say your Scuba Board handle, where your from, and what your credentials are...

We could BS about Scuba, Scubaboard and just whatever. I'll even get some agency officials to come on in for the event and I'll make sure no lubrication is near. I think that would be fun.

GROUP HUG

:walking:

 

[-hh]

jepuskar once bubbled...
Now this is getting juicy........

Nah... I haven't even had to quote ANSI Z86.3 (1989)...yet :doctor:


-hh

 

[Lawman]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


You still haven't gotten around to answering my question but I have another one to add to it now.

When have I ever made reference to "untrained PADI swine who endanger us all"? Above you say you'll respond. I'm waiting.

Thanks in advance.

You didn't say that. I didn't say that you did. It wasn't meant
to be taken literally. Another metaphor.

 

[Lawman]

Which one has the question for me? Whats the question?
I don't want to read them all.