TDI or PADI?

[DiveNav]

...... Why am I interested in tech courses? Because I enjoy wreck diving and a lot of wrecks are in deep water outside rec limits. .....

And how deep are you planning to go on air?
And .... once you get there, how long are you planning to stay there?

Alberto (aka eDiver)

 

[Slamfire]

I am looking for the differences and peoples opinions regarding the pros and cons of the way the courses are structured.

And if you want more pictures, get a copy of the TEC DEEP MANUAL and look at pp. 60 - 61. The images presented do NOT look like good images for technical diving to me.

Whenever I reply I try to do it in a fair, factual way. But since the OP is looking for opinions, I think I'll spill out some of the beans as long as everybody is well aware that this is hearsay and I haven't verified this for myself. I have not seen the book that Peter refers to, but in a conversation someone was telling me that some of the PADI TecRec procedures for deploying a bag involve recommendations to have your buddy go negatively buoyant and hold on to the legs of the bag deployer. Alternatively it was recommended that the deployer wrap his/her legs around a piece of wreck or a rock before deploying the bag. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I find this so tragically comic that it's hard to believe.

 

[fire_diver]

Whenever I reply I try to do it in a fair, factual way. But since the OP is looking for opinions, I think I'll spill out some of the beans as long as everybody is well aware that this is hearsay and I haven't verified this for myself. I have not seen the book that Peter refers to, but in a conversation someone was telling me that some of the PADI TecRec procedures for deploying a bag involve recommendations to have your buddy go negatively buoyant and hold on to the legs of the bag deployer. Alternatively it was recommended that the deployer wrap his/her legs around a piece of wreck or a rock before deploying the bag. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I find this so tragically comic that it's hard to believe.

I have heard this also. It was one of the reasons I opted for an instructor who taught TDI instead of PADI.

 

[GregT943]

Thank you, I got the info I needed. Some people understood what I was looking for and others didn't, but I appreciate you all helping out. Sorry for any confusion, I should have made my initial post much clearer.

 

[waterpirate]

ok I will go first. The recomendation for going negative and holding on to the deployers feet is just a set up for..........
Padi's warhammer manuever!
It is going to br the next specialty
Eric

 

[SeaCobra]

If I had to pick I would lean towards TDI, I feel they have a better over all approach to tech diving. If you are anywhere near the Cape you may want to track down Dave Caldwell and Heather Knowles of North Atlantic Diving. Very active wreck divers, excellent instructors and super nice people. They run a dive boat called The Gauntlet and you can find them at northatlanticdive.com

Jeff

 

[AndyNZ]

Ugh, all the books are pretty useless, it all comes down to the instructor, between the open water book and the regular nitrox book, I really didnt find any additional useful info in any of the intro to tech, advanced nitrox etc books. So it really comes down to the instructor and what they teach.

I don't beleive that you can seperate the instructor from the agency.

Take me as an example. I can teach the PADI courses - and I could teach a good one. But to do so, I would have to bend many of the course standards and probably break a few. I would have to contradict the 'ethos' of the course and re-educate a student about several core principles that are presented by the course material.

Personally, I am not prepared to do that. Some PADI/DSAT instructors do. And they do a good course - but what does that tell you about the instructor? That they are prepared to break the rules that are imposed upon them by the agency they teach for. Well, what other rules are they prepared to break? Are they behaving "ethically" by breaking the standards in order to provide a good course?

As much as an instructor has to have faith in the agency, the agency has to have faith in the instructor corps. As the OP has specifically asked about PADI and TDI, I will comment on those first.

TDI standards are simply a list of things that the student needs to be able to do at the end of their course. It is a set of minimum skills. TDI trusts me to put those skills together in a sequence that suits, they trust me to add in the extra skills that I see fit to ensure that my student can do the dives the course qualifies them to do.

PADI explicitly tell me what skills I must do, in what order. This prescription doesn't take into account anything with my logistical challenges. PADI simply don't trust their instructors to do a good job, which makes me doubt whether the majority of PADI instructors can teach effectively if they are not trustable.

So agency and instructor or inexorably linked.

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

Maybe I look at things differently, but why is the OP so hung up on going Padi or TDI? IANTD, Naui, GUE, etc are valid considerations.

The constant advice on SB was to find a good instructor, then ask him what course he can teach you. This felt a little cart before the horse to me. So when I moved into tech diving (and to be fair I am still a tech newbie) I took the view that all agencies have both good instructors and weak instructors. Hence, I spent a lot of time looking at course structures, speaking to instructors from the the above agencies and even reading the course material for 2 agencies. Eventually, I settled on TDI.

Once I knew the course I actually wanted, I started the process of finding a good Instructor. Google and Scubaboard queries, telephone calls to the instructor and a plethora of emails to quiz the instructors before signing on for training. Also try diving with the instructor before signing up, after all he is likely to train you to have the skills that he displays in the water.

 

[oldogre]

Re PADI "deploying of SMB", I would have failed my PADI Deep if I had used the "hearsay technique". It depends on the instructor. (A rec diver thought).

 

[AndyNZ]

Maybe I look at things differently, but why is the OP so hung up on going Padi or TDI? IANTD, Naui, GUE, etc are valid considerations.

I don't know either, though I can think of many reasons why - one being local availability. The GUE courses I've done have been great, but have also had to fly in an instructor from overseas to do them. I think that many people don't have the time to dedicate to such an endeavour (or to travel themselves) and look at what is available locally.

I can understand the OPs frustration a few posts back. They've had a fairly clear question, but the majority of responses jump in with the "why don't you do a Helitrox course instead" or other tangential opinion. I'm sure the OP has good reasons for the question they have asked - and answers to a different question are just a distraction.