TDI or PADI?

[rjack321]

Oddly, I have had to do this very thing. It's worth pointing out that I also had no mask, a missing OPV valve on my wing, a missing deco bottle, and a failed Argon reg on the same dive.


All the best, James

With 3 of us, I think we were down to 2 working posts, two working deco bottles, and two masks. Once we hit our stride we of course lost another mask and I think another post, its a blur.

 

[ianr33]

With 3 of us, I think we were down to 2 working posts, two working deco bottles, and two masks. Once we hit our stride we of course lost another mask and I think another post, its a blur.

Surely a dive such as that deserves its own thread.

Please!

 

[Elvistheking]

Surely a dive such as that deserves its own thread.

Please!

I'm sensing a training dive with simulated failures...........

 

[fire_diver]

I'm sensing a training dive with simulated failures...........

Thinking the same thing. The chances of THAT many failures in a single dive would be astronomical.

 

[rjack321]

Surely a dive such as that deserves its own thread.

Please!

Its just in respond to AndyNZ's comments that buddy breathing a deco gas is not something he expects in class. Both fdog and myself have had to share deco gas in different classes and that was on top of a bunch of other problems. It wasn't pretty, but in my case we didn't cork on the ascent and could have continued to share for quite some time.

I have also had to share deco gas in real life. Although we didn't buddy breath, I just gave my buddy my deco bottle for awhile.

 

[amascuba]

Oddly, I have had to do this very thing. It's worth pointing out that I also had no mask, a missing OPV valve on my wing, a missing deco bottle, and a failed Argon reg on the same dive.


All the best, James

We must have been on the same dive. I too, have experienced this same thing.

 

[Doppler]

For example, there is one TDI performance requirement in the Decompression Procedures course that I'd rather was different. I can't remember exactly how it's worded, but it's essentially 'buddy breathing a deco gas'.

Hi Andy... I had something to do with creating those skills... up until the time of their release, TDI had virtually nothing on paper... May be necessary to look at the whole skillset not from the point of view "is this likely to happen..." but thinking in a short space of time (a handful of dives) the instructor has to push her student towards the edge of his comfort zone so that both walk away knowing where that demarcation line is.

And hey, Andy, how come you haven't bought a bunch of my books!?

P.S. I have chosen to buddy breathe deco gas during staged stops on several occasions...

 

[fdog]

How did you think that dive went?

I thought it went spectacularly! ...fun, too, in a perverse sort of way.

I remember thinking, as our ...torturer... took away our last working post, while were at the 20' stop, "well, this deco bottle is all we have left, he probabally won't take this one away too!" Which was followed by quick mental math to confirm we had enough "oxygen" make the stop time for our "deco".

Training like this certainly doesn't mimic reality, since in the real world we end a dive long before cascading failures like this could arise. However, it surely does burn in keeping track of resources and decision trees. Which, back to OP, I have spoken to several PADI tec graduates on that subject, and could tell by their reaction it was a foreign language.



All the best, James

 

[AndyNZ]

Agreed,but I can think of several reasons why you might CHOOSE to buddy breathe a deco gas.
It's just another tool you might want to use someday.

Agreed. Which is why I still teach it rather than ignoring it.

Why are you using "live" deco gases (or for that matter expensive backgases) for skills at all? If you are going to be buddy breathing at 6m (21m or 30m, whatever) for skill development you might as well be learning it on air or cheap nitrox 32. Instead of merely talking about what they could or couldn't do, why not have them do a dive to 30m, ascent to 21m and then an abbreviated buddy breathing schedule like 2mins every 3m from 21m to the surface.

Mostly logistics and availability. I tend to do a few shallow dives, then some ascent training, then come back to the shallows to do some skill refinement. There's normally a few cylinders kicking around that are part fills of 50% from my previous course that my LDS will dump if I ask them to fill them with 50% again.

Abbreviated buddy breathing schedule.... more on that in a minute.

Its just in respond to AndyNZ's comments that buddy breathing a deco gas is not something he expects in class. Both fdog and myself have had to share deco gas in different classes and that was on top of a bunch of other problems. It wasn't pretty, but in my case we didn't cork on the ascent and could have continued to share for quite some time.

I have also had to share deco gas in real life. Although we didn't buddy breath, I just gave my buddy my deco bottle for awhile.

I think there is a distinct difference between "sharing a deco gas" and "buddy breathing a deco gas". The former I emphasise over buddy breathing. So a typical procedure would be (assuming back gas available) hit your first stop at 21m, the lost deco gas diver stays on back gas. Ascend to next stop, lost deco gas diver switches to their team mates deco gas, team mate switches to back gas. At the end of the stop, stop sharing gas and both divers ascend to next stop. Divers alternate stops on deco and back gas and rextend the stops appropriately.

This is way different than two divers at 21m with only one working regulator (and one tank of deco gas) between them, sharing the regulator and blowing bubbles all the way up the ascent. With a single deco gas - for which a reserve is typically 1.5x the required gas - I don't see this as a viable strategy.

Hi Andy... I had something to do with creating those skills... up until the time of their release, TDI had virtually nothing on paper... May be necessary to look at the whole skillset not from the point of view "is this likely to happen..." but thinking in a short space of time (a handful of dives) the instructor has to push her student towards the edge of his comfort zone so that both walk away knowing where that demarcation line is.

Thanks, Steve. Useful to get input from HQ. We are a long way from the mother ship and some of the intent of the standards never filters down through the local ITs.

For example, buddy breathing a deco gas wasn't taught on either my diver level courses or my instructor course. So I've never been told why it's in the curriculum and have been left to work it out for myself.

And hey, Andy, how come you haven't bought a bunch of my books!?

Having a baby got in the way! It's on my list of things to do as I hear it's a good read!

P.S. I have chosen to buddy breathe deco gas during staged stops on several occasions...

I think this is the crux of my "issue" with the standard. I think buddy breathing during a staged stop is reasonable, but I wouldn't choose to conduct the ascent whilst buddy breathing. I'd prefer to be on back gas if it were available, then continue to buddy breathe at the next stop.

 

[Prekus01]

So what agency did you end up doing it with? Or did all this lot put you off? If you did do it, are you liking it? The ability to access the deeper wrecks, I mean?

I've just finsihed my first tech courses, hence my following of this thread. But I'm a girl so my concern is more about knowing the end of the story rather than trying to tell you what you should have done. While the various pieces of advice have been interesting I already made my choice of training, so I'm keen to know what you did rather than offering a justification as to why I made my choice? Is there an end to the story?

These tech divers really are an egotistical fiesty lot (often, not justified I bet). Some of them would put many people off joining their 'fraternity' I think. You did a great job in standing your ground through their various posts, so I am keen to know what you did with the tech diving idea?