An age-old question: ways to 60m.

[CG43]

Deep air is inherently no more dangerous now than it was before what, the early 80's

Even though I liked your contribution, you are probably mistaken here.

The divers are not the same as they used to be before .
When there wasn't such good diving technology, it was replaced by adaptation the diver to the depth.
At first, you had to be able to freedive to a certain extent. This was a reason why diving did not spread so quickly in Europe; it only happened when PADI, among others, introduced easy diving.
This already eliminated a selection because now scuba diving could be learned quickly without lengthy training and people started diving who otherwise would never have done it.
For these other new divers, different depth limits had to be established because there were really serious problems in depths that we old adapted divers regularly dove to.
Physics is the same for everyone, but the reaction to a changed environment is not.
When I then ask what you do to train adapted reactions, I get the answer that we don't need that.
This is correct; it is not necessary if one can shape their physical environment to be similar to what they are used to. And if one has only learned that, they can only dive safely as that.

That is one really good reason not to write about deep air on scuba bord .

 

[SelfDiver]

the CMAS standard say 40 metres for 3 star divers
and France answers 60 metres for the same level …

France does what she wants with scuba diving (don't forget that we are the originators of scuba diving... joke)
And cmas does not dispute this, because France is the main supplier of certifications.
And so, the main supplier of money !
look at the board of directors of cmas : half are French …

BOARD OF DIRECTORS

In addition to organizing international underwater sport events it is at the forefront of technical and scientific research and development. It can be associate

www.cmas.org

Now I feel bad because my training did not include "The French are different".
So as a professional Francais CMAS 3 star diver who is certified autonomous 60m, what is the mix you choose for that dive?
Air?
Trimix ppo2 1.4 with 40 END?
Other?

 

[flymolo]

the CMAS standard say 40 metres for 3 star divers
and France answers 60 metres for the same level …

France does what she wants with scuba diving (don't forget that we are the originators of scuba diving... joke)
And cmas does not dispute this, because France is the main supplier of certifications.
And so, the main supplier of money !
look at the board of directors of cmas : half are French …

BOARD OF DIRECTORS

In addition to organizing international underwater sport events it is at the forefront of technical and scientific research and development. It can be associate

www.cmas.org

Not only is cmas irrelevant it’s French so it’s annoying as well!!

 

[crofrog]

Not only is cmas irrelevant it’s French so it’s annoying as well!!

No one does death sports like the French. Be it free soloing ice in Chamonix or diving deep on air.

 

[tridacna]

No one does death sports like the French. Be it free soloing ice in Chamonix or diving deep on air.

Why do French tanks have rearview mirrors? So the driver can see the battlefield

For sale: French rifle. Never used - only dropped once.

 

[Kay Dee]

Divers who don't use snorkels are suicidal aholes!!!!

OK, I'll bite. Thats a joke, right?

Never wore one in in 30 years of 'tech' diving, nor saw anyone I know do so (although I carried a 'foldable' one in my bag on the boat on a some occasions*). Each to their own I suppose though.

*For when there was a nice reef to snorkel nearby between dives.

 

[bardass]

Now I feel bad because my training did not include "The French are different".
So as a professional Francais CMAS 3 star diver who is certified autonomous 60m, what is the mix you choose for that dive?
Air?
Trimix ppo2 1.4 with 40 END?
Other?

I've already answered this question

Post in thread 'An age-old question: ways to 60m.'

Jun 27, 2025

I'm going to refocus the debate, and I think I'm going to make you howl...
In France and Belgium (and maybe elsewhere), divers are trained to dive autonomously (without any DM) or supervised (with the equivalent of a DM) to 60m on air.
And, of course, with mandatory decompression stops

At this depth, nitrox deco tanks is not mandatory, although it's strongly recommended, and requires specific training if the diver wishes to use them.
I'm not judging whether it's good or bad, it's a fact !


Diving to 60 meters has been around for a very long time.
In France, we have a diving law (we love...

• bardass

• 

 

[Olsen_No]

Why do French tanks have rearview mirrors? So the driver can see the battlefield

For sale: French rifle. Never used - only dropped once.

Ok, this is not the main point of this post nor of this board but got to address this US based myth.

Just wanted to inform you that France lost more soldiers in the two first years of WW1 then what the US have lost combined in all wars since its inception and up to today; that is including both sides of the civil war.

So when you joke about French soldiers, you should do that with respect because that country knows more about war and loose than your average American can imagine

 

[Kay Dee]

Argh, the perennial deep air thread. Gotta love it! And nothing ever changes either it seems, there are the (also perennial) for’s and against, the have's and the have not’s, the do’s and the dont’s and never the twain shall meet (or so it seems).

Personally, while I would recommend otherwise, I have no problem with folks diving deep air, if the conditions suit. I even trained them to do so, back in the day, and if I was still a current instructor I would still do so today if the person had a genuine reason for wanting / needing to do so (like living somewhere where the good gas was simply impossible, or totally cost ineffective, to get, fly in, etc). When the situation demanded it I still dove OC deep air throughout my ‘tech’ / CCR diving career long long after I was trimix certified (back in the early 90’s). And that 'situation' was when there was simply no helium available, but the dives were. For instance in the early daze around Guadalcanal in the Sols and throughout south east Asian waters well into the 2000’s when the liveaboard I habitually dove off (in relatively remote locations as far as dropping into your nearest dive shop and purchasing helium goes) no longer had any helium left on board, which was usually only at the end of a season and we were doing a ‘boys own’ jaunt, or when the damn OC jocks had used up all the helium that was on board.

But would I rather use trimix all the time for deep dives? YOU BET! But would I sit out a 60m-65m / 197ft-213ft dive (on OC, not CCR!) in tropical waters cause I only had air as a back gas? A resounding NO!

Of course YMMV.
Cheers.


EDIT. Added imperial measurements for those so mentally challenged.

 

[Celt]

Even though I liked your contribution, you are probably mistaken here.

The divers are not the same as they used to be before .
When there wasn't such good diving technology, it was replaced by adaptation the diver to the depth.
At first, you had to be able to freedive to a certain extent. This was a reason why diving did not spread so quickly in Europe; it only happened when PADI, among others, introduced easy diving.
This already eliminated a selection because now scuba diving could be learned quickly without lengthy training and people started diving who otherwise would never have done it.
For these other new divers, different depth limits had to be established because there were really serious problems in depths that we old adapted divers regularly dove to.
Physics is the same for everyone, but the reaction to a changed environment is not.
When I then ask what you do to train adapted reactions, I get the answer that we don't need that.
This is correct; it is not necessary if one can shape their physical environment to be similar to what they are used to. And if one has only learned that, they can only dive safely as that.

That is one really good reason not to write about deep air on scuba bord .

After 2 years free diving at 16 I managed to borrow scuba and the very first breath I took underwater I knew it was not natural for a person to breathe under water and was stressful and I would have to deal with that first. Dealing with stress and not avoiding it is what diving demands. I do it by training, practice and routine. Stress brings rapid breathing, co2 buildup and panic. That was 55 years ago and in an hour’s time i will go to work under water and take exactly the same time to relax and get comfortable, I will plan every detail and be confident I can deal with whatever I come up against calmly and efficiently. All my diving in now solo and if the day comes when I’m not 100% comfortable I’ll retire. I can’t do the things I done when I was 30 but you must know your limitations and be honest with yourself. I don’t concern myself with how others dive but wish them all the best as people who go underwater are a unique group.