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You could read the thread...
Taking garbage bags in the water.
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Ana
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I used a different choice of words expressing the same feeling on a thread about knives and OMG ...big time OMG.
What if you have thick gloves, and is cold, and dark, and you're going up hill, and I don't know how much more task loading stuff??? uh ? uh? and don't be going on insulting woosies either ... not cool.
If people can't keep their knives from falling, it sure isn't reasonable to think they can control a freaking trash bag... much less while is being inflated.
I mentioned on an earlier post, as a general rule I couldn't care less what divers bring along in their dives, I've sure seen some weird stuff, but bringing a stupid trash bag as potential safety gear is not a good idea.
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A quick read of the thread gives me two facts:
1. In the past, when proper equipment was harder to source, some divers used a plastic bag inside of a mesh bag to function as a lift bag.
In the modern world, no one should use an inadequate method such as this for lift. It is dangerous and impractical. A diver should use an SMB or a lift bag, which will have the proper attachment points for lift, as well as methods to control the rate of lift and vent excess air. It will also pose almost no threat to wildlife. I saw tens of companies offering quality lift bags and SMB's at DEMA last year, finding one should be incredibly easy.
2. DandyDon carries one to use as a signaling source at night. This is again, a poor method. As I have already explained, a proper SMB will be much more reliable than a trashbag. Trashbags have no method to vent excess air and as such, might be rendered ineffective by a diver who inflates them too much. Further, they might easily be ripped or torn on a dive. Additionally, they are not nearly as easy to manage and fill with air as a proper SMB. Finally, they do not allow for nearly the same visibility as a proper SMB. The light will be more diffused if the light is inside the bag, than an SMB lit from a light held on the outside of the SMB. The SMB will reflect more of the light horizontal from the water, as the trashbag will transmit light around it's globular shape. A light placed on top of a proper SMB which should be atleast 6 feet tall, will be seen in waves as high as 6 feet while an inflated trashbag will probably be no more than one or two feet above the surface, rendering it useless in anything but light seas. And, trashbags do not typically have a way to mount a light on the top. A proper SMB should have a way to mount a light on top, as well as the ability to shine lights on the sides, to create maximum visibility.
As such, I see absolutely no reason for a diver to carry a trashbag in the water.
Atleast there is a practical reason for a snorkel. I think even spare air is more useful than a trashbag, though I must concede, a trashbag of sufficient size would hold more air, especially if filled at depth from a freeflowing octo. However, a diver would need a ton of lead weight to hold them from a rapid ascent as they breathed from the TrashAir, so I'm not sure if the increased offering of air is as useful as it might seem at first.
If SMB's were available in a nearly translucent white, I would endorse the carrying of one at night, as it might then be a good altnerative to the classic red/orange/yellow SMB.
[edit] I don't want to come off as too harsh. Most of the time, I don't care how people dive. I am sure that DandyDon is careful with his trash bags. However, i want to discourage people from using trashbags because I feel they are less effective than SMB's by some small amount, and because I feel they pose a danger to sea turtles. After dating a girl who devoted two summers to sea turtle research, I have great respect for those majestic beauties of the sea, and I care about preventing the trash that kills them from appearing in the ocean. Because I feel most divers are less careful than DandyDon, I feel that encouraging the use of trash bags in the water is a bad idea.
Hopefully you all can see I do have a sense of humour and some things are said tongue in cheek. Even bad ideas are a good source for jokes
1. In the past, when proper equipment was harder to source, some divers used a plastic bag inside of a mesh bag to function as a lift bag.
In the modern world, no one should use an inadequate method such as this for lift. It is dangerous and impractical. A diver should use an SMB or a lift bag, which will have the proper attachment points for lift, as well as methods to control the rate of lift and vent excess air. It will also pose almost no threat to wildlife. I saw tens of companies offering quality lift bags and SMB's at DEMA last year, finding one should be incredibly easy.
2. DandyDon carries one to use as a signaling source at night. This is again, a poor method. As I have already explained, a proper SMB will be much more reliable than a trashbag. Trashbags have no method to vent excess air and as such, might be rendered ineffective by a diver who inflates them too much. Further, they might easily be ripped or torn on a dive. Additionally, they are not nearly as easy to manage and fill with air as a proper SMB. Finally, they do not allow for nearly the same visibility as a proper SMB. The light will be more diffused if the light is inside the bag, than an SMB lit from a light held on the outside of the SMB. The SMB will reflect more of the light horizontal from the water, as the trashbag will transmit light around it's globular shape. A light placed on top of a proper SMB which should be atleast 6 feet tall, will be seen in waves as high as 6 feet while an inflated trashbag will probably be no more than one or two feet above the surface, rendering it useless in anything but light seas. And, trashbags do not typically have a way to mount a light on the top. A proper SMB should have a way to mount a light on top, as well as the ability to shine lights on the sides, to create maximum visibility.
As such, I see absolutely no reason for a diver to carry a trashbag in the water.
Atleast there is a practical reason for a snorkel. I think even spare air is more useful than a trashbag, though I must concede, a trashbag of sufficient size would hold more air, especially if filled at depth from a freeflowing octo. However, a diver would need a ton of lead weight to hold them from a rapid ascent as they breathed from the TrashAir, so I'm not sure if the increased offering of air is as useful as it might seem at first.
If SMB's were available in a nearly translucent white, I would endorse the carrying of one at night, as it might then be a good altnerative to the classic red/orange/yellow SMB.
[edit] I don't want to come off as too harsh. Most of the time, I don't care how people dive. I am sure that DandyDon is careful with his trash bags. However, i want to discourage people from using trashbags because I feel they are less effective than SMB's by some small amount, and because I feel they pose a danger to sea turtles. After dating a girl who devoted two summers to sea turtle research, I have great respect for those majestic beauties of the sea, and I care about preventing the trash that kills them from appearing in the ocean. Because I feel most divers are less careful than DandyDon, I feel that encouraging the use of trash bags in the water is a bad idea.
Hopefully you all can see I do have a sense of humour and some things are said tongue in cheek. Even bad ideas are a good source for jokes
mike_s
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Just to be clear.... I've been coming and going to this board for many years. I tend to post some when I don't have any active projects going on and have to be in the office, then pretty much disappear when I go on sea tests. Few of my posts have been removed by mods, as a general rule my posts offend people because I'm selfish, don't care for the social aspect of diving, and mostly because I don't realize that people can't read my tone only the words I type.
I regret offending some members because it wasn't really my intention, however I'm fine being called inconsiderate, selfish, and whatever other things people think of me here on SB.
Now I don't have to explain to you crap... but I find it amusing that you think I am part of a gang.
How ever the trash bag talk started I don't care, who ever laughed at you and upset you, I don't care.
The fact there is talk in the board of taking stupid trash bags in the water I DO CARE.
Because I care is why I decided that this is something that requires enough attention to make it a separate thread.
So I'll send my message again:
CONSIDERING THE ABILITY OF THE TYPICAL DIVER IN 2010 IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA TO BRING PLASTIC TRASH BAGS IN THE WATER, WHITE OR ANY OTHER COLOR.
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Just to be extra clear, DandyDon garners some respect from me and I suspect most people. I think it's wrong to make jokes about a user to the point of annoying them. I in no way intended to say anything bad about DandyDon, only to show salient points for disagreeing with his method of night visibility of distress signals.
So Don, you can post all of the childish smileys you want but have you actually learned anything? Perhaps admitting the trash bag idea was less than genius would go a long way toward ending this. Posting conspiracy theories about how everyone's talking behind your back (trust me we have MUCH better things to do with our time) and smileygasm's just makes you come off like a goofball.
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