Subtle sexism among instructors

[KC_Scubabunny]

Overall, everyone I have ever been associated with in diving has been wonderful human beings. I have never had any obvious sexism and as an 11 year veteran of the United States Air Force, I know obvious sexism when I see it.

I have heard the obvious sterotypes that women get colder faster and use less air. Compared to my husband, I would say that I am true of both. In comparison, our friend Bev only dons a Polartec when most of us are wearing 3mm suits. She also wears her 3mm when I have long moved to my 7mm with hood.

The bigger discrimination issue that I have noticed in diving is a racial discrimination. It could be the part of the country that I dive in (Southern Missouri) but I have huge issues with the way I have heard instructors, DM's and other dive shop personnel refer to African American students in their classes. In fact I voice a complaint with our LDS owner for comments made by one of his instructor at a shop sponsored Halloween party.

My 12 year old sister is dying to get certified as soon as my parents will consent but I will have to be very careful who is involved in the supervision of her class because of the bigotry she might be exposed to and not the sexism.

KC_Scubabunny

 

[kodiak]

I wasn't aware that there is a problem with sexism with scuba instructors.
My wife is thinking about taking scuba classes and I would hope that she is treated with all of the respect and kindness that she deservers.
If not I know that she would inform me and I will have it dealt with one way or another. That is if she doesn't deal with it first.

 

[Viv]

KC_Scubabunny......

I am an African American female and whenever I have encountered "discrimination" in the dive community it is difficult for me to determine if it is gender and/or racial bias. You would not believe the surprised looks I get when I walk into some dive shops! Instead of being greated with "How may I help you?" I frequently encounter "Why are you here?" or I simply get ignored.
This tends to happen more where I live (NE US) than in foreign travel destinations - go figure

It never occured to me that my gender or ethnicity would be a "problem" when I first decided to get certified.
I love diving too much to let this bother me but it is annoying sometimes. As far as I'm concerned it's their problem - not mine. Who knows - maybe being exposed to me in what some people might consider an "un-orthodox environment" might open their minds.

 

[emeyer36]

Viv,

Have you ever thought it might not be discrimation (gender or racial). I lived in NE US several times in my husbands Navy career and visit all around there. Let me tell you the clerks in stores all over NE US, in all kind of stores, seem to have lost sight of the fact that it is the customer who actually pays their salaries. I will tell you about one time, I am a white female, I went into a store in Conn. to buy a dress. I was the only customer in the store at the time. Three clerks were gathered around the cash register talking. I walked around for 20 minutes or more looking for my size and then looking at what I found. I finally walked out without spending a cent because I felt if they couldn't be bothered to ask a simple "May I help you?", then I couldn't be bothered to spend money in that store. Believe me it happened lots of other times in the various areas of the Northeast US.

Just a thought, but I do think dive shops sometimes do have a bit of a "good old boy" attitude, even the one I go to most which is owned and run by a woman.

 

[CTurtle]

Haven't had that problem yet (& hope not to). I have had some that offer to carry my equipment for me since I struggle to pick up all that heavy stuff. Sometimes I let them, other times I'll do it myself. The only problem that I have is with my husband trying to put all of my equipment together before a dive. I've tried to explain to him that I would rather do it myself (after all, there will be times that I will be diving without him). He would rather think that I can't do things right without him, so to put an end to that problem I start putting my bc & regulator together as I take them out of the bag. Maybe one day he'll realize that I CAN survive without him!!!!


Cindy

 

[Amanda]

Please people just REMEMBER that you're not FRENCH...

I am...

French males are the most machist on earth. I'm a 20 year old diver and I remember that once a guy refused to be taken underwater by a 'girlie' (who had 90 dives more than he did, though... ut: )

 

[Viv]

Emeyer36,
I agree with you, the NE US is not the customer service capital of the world. You can't even get a burger in McDonalds without a hassel here! However, I did neglect to give you the entire story of what had transpired during my dive shop visit. The sales person did admit to me that he assumed that I wasn't a diver and that I was probably just window shopping and came in to look at the bathing suits and flip-flops. I guess I just didn't fit the profile! I actually have no problems with the shop - I even did my AOW certification with them! Now that they know I am a diver I get the same poor customer service as everyone else

Now the "macho NE diver syndrome" is a different story. I belong to a dive club and when I first joined and expressed an interest in local NE diving I was met with looks of shock. Both the male and female members told me, "The women don't dive up here, they usually dive when we make trips to FL or the Caribbean." What bothered me most was that many of the women were agreeing with the men. I know cold/dark water isn't for everyone but I think the type of diving one does should be skill and not gender based.

 

[vr]

Originally posted by art.chick
VR,
I am not interested in the frequency of coldness or air use among various demographics. Why can't an instructor (who has a LOT of influence on students' expectations) just say, "Everyone gets cold/tired/low on air at a different rate" rather than attaching a "feminine" label to certain reactions?

You may not care, but others do. Physiological differences do not constitute sexism and I think you are overly sensiitive on the subject if you include these in with genuine sexism.

Biscuit7 (Rachel's) response serves as a good answer to your question.

It is helpful to know that I'm not a huge wimp 'cause I'm cold when all the guys are fine; that I will probably need to pay more attention to my husband's air then my own because he will use more.

As a beginner, the more realistic picture I have as to how my body will react to an underwater environment, the safer I will be; and I can also choose equipment (read wetsuit) that will better accomodate my reality.

Women who have been informed of the general physiological differences between them and males may find a 50 cuft tank (both smaller and lighter) may suffice for their needs. That's sure a lot better for them than lugging around an 80 cuft tank because they don't know any better. That can be more comfortable for them and make it easier for them to tote their own gear. They will also be aware that they might need thicker wetsuits than the males around them. That can make them more comfortable (warmer) and safer, since being cold contributes to DCS.

That's why!

Any bit of information that can make for any divers being safer and more comfortable is a good thing, political correctness and your hypersensistiviity be damned.

 

[AliKat]

I have encountered an instructor who showed some subtle (and maybe some not so subtle) sexism.

I'm not talking about stating that women get cold faster than men, or offering help with heavy gear.

But this guy said to every OW class when it came to connecting the LPH "Now for some reason women just can't do this". I am a female, and that particular task was never a problem for me. And I hadn't noticed any of his female students with that problem.

Then there was the constant comments about "I like diving with women...too much testosterone with all men" and "I discovered with my daughter than women can be great divers too". Me thinks he doth protest too much!!

I did several specialty certifications under this person and really didn't notice this too much. But when I began DM training, it really became evident to me. All of the other DM candidates were male and it took me a long time but I finally had to admit I would never finish with this guy, because I didn't exsist when his male students were around. On one 3 tank dive with a specialty class, he knew we all needed a third tank. His male DM students he brought the third tank for...me, well "I didn't know you needed one" I was the others when we all said we did!

I switched to a female instructor, but unfortunately, she left the area before we got far. I am now with another male, and so far see none of this sexism.

However, the male instructor that 10 years ago said I was fool at my size for using an 80 tank (the 63 had just become available), I did not feel was being sexist. I was one of his first converts to the 63 and will never forget him for it!

 

[Welshman]

Neither I nor my wife have ever noticed this but there is bound to be the exception that proves the rule somewhere. Hope we both manage to avoid it.

regards