Subtle sexism among instructors

[CuriousMe]

I haven't had any problems with instructors or even divemasters being jerks. I have had some other male divers on the boat being jerks though. There was this one guy (just a diver on the boat I was on) who asked me if I needed help setting up my gear, and even after I said I could and would take care of it, proceeded to try and set it up...I ended up slaping his hand the way I would if a 3 year old was reaching for something hot. He just looked at me in a puzzled way....I then explained again, that I would prefer to set up my own equiptement (after all....I'm the one who will be breathing from it...I'd like to be sure it's the way I want it!). He was truly baffled that I didn't want him to do it for me.

He turned out to be a jerk in a lot of ways though, he was definately one of my "lessons learned" dives....we all agreed that we won't ask him to come with us again.

Now I have had DM's and just folks (male and female) help me lug gear to and from the boat, and I've helped others. Honestly, the need for teamwork in diving is one of the important lessons I'm constantly learning when I dive....I wouldn't want to get rid of that.

 

[Butch103]

on the sexism issue, but I would like a possible answer to the question...Do all women hacve floating feet ???...This is not a slam but alegit question...My wife and most every female I have dove with (5-6) have had problems with floating feet........Is this just a genetic anamoly <sp> ??

 

[MikeFerrara]

As an instructor I don't care about a students gender except...as it relates to diving. My wife is a cave diver and a technical diver. The equipment she uses is heavier than her. We also do some long dives in very cold water. She is proof that a whoman can do it all. However she must do some things different than I do. If she ignored the phisical differences between us and tried to do everything the same way I did she would be unable to function in these environments on these dives. Are there differences in ability due to gender? No. Is gender one of the reasons that different methods need to be use when it comes to certain aspects of diving? yes. As an instructor would I be doing my job if I didn't let female students in on some of the tricks my wife and I have learned over the years? Little people are different than big people and men are different than whoman. If you don't like it slip a note in God's (insert any name or word you prefer)complaint box. My job is to help each student work with what they were given. As far being different colors, I won't notice if you don't.

 

[Zept]

Originally posted by Butch103
Do all women have floating feet?

Nope. I have sinking feet.

Zept

 

[Viv]

I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with the fact that there are gender differences, the problem is how they are presented. I diving most of the norms are based on male data (e.g. Navy dive tables.) Therefore, everything that is a female tendency seems to be treated as "abnormal" (i.e. not male.)

Mike, I am glad to hear that you give your female students some "female friendly" tips. Most of the larger male instructors that I have encountered during my short diving career have not been as sensitive to my needs. As a 5 ft tall, 115lb female with gear that weighs as much as I do, I would love some handy hints. Usually what I get is a suggestion that maybe I shouldn't be doing this because I can't handle the gear. I know it is probably because the 6 ft tall, 190lb person who is saying this hasn't been my size since the age of 12 and doesn't know what to suggest.

 

[capnvik]

I am not world's greatest communicator, so I don't blame my esteemed fellow divers who re-interpretted my post in other terms, but I will re-iterate for clarity:

1) I am not "thin-skinned" about physiological differences about men & women. In fact, after 37 years of having the differences pointed out in every conceivable context, I usually just smirk as men blather on about their own expertise on our anatomy & behavior. Thank you, Andrew Dice Clay & his many disciples!

2) My observation is that men tend to feel diminished in general (not just in diving) when they are compared to women.

3) As a result of not wanting to seem "sissy," men tend to overplay the "macho" act. This is rather amusing in bars, however I see men all the time who won't admit to being cold, hot, chafed, or anything else that the instructor said was "feminine." We have come dangerously close to having emergencies when men insist they can "handle" things that they are not ready for. A woman has "liscence" to wimp out or set limits; why shouldn't a man?

4) As a result of being in over their heads & not wanting to admit it, men take risks that make me nervous. They also "bully" each other into matching the level of risk. Their reaction to feeling fear seems to be to act mad, demanding, or some other confusing, aggressive front. How can you help a scared person who is cussing as if you just dented his corvette?

5) I do not see the value of putting a "feminine" label on reactions that anyone can have. Small people of either sex have "small-person" needs, not sissy needs. Chubby people of either sex have weight-related needs, not womanly (ie Big Boob)needs. People who are sensitive to cold are just sensitive to cold & have the right to say they need to get out of a dangerous situation that could lead to hypothermia. Why should a chilled male be called "sissy" for admitting to his needs?

6) I honestly believe that a sex-neutral phraseology in class would open the door for men and women to accept that EVERY person's body has a different reaction to cold, uneven buoyancy, stress, motion, & confinement. I teach youth this way. I find that teen boys are VERY susceptible to suggestions of "wimpyness," so I shatter that up front. I NEVER say what girls or boys are "supposed" to feel, but that you & your buddy have every right to insist upon comfort & safety without being called weak.

I have exaggerated an "anti-male" tone for the purpose of illustrating how we can misunderstand each other. Think how many times MEN have made similar presumptions about us. Misunderstanding perpetuate themselves with widespread acceptance. It has only been 100 years since medical schools resisted admitting female students in the belief that overuse of the brain would undermine reproductive function. It has only been 40 years since many high schools prefered "attractive" girls on sports teams because "unattractive" athletic girls were presumed to be gay, and schools did not want to encourage homosexulaity. Today's "facts" could be tomarrow's de-bunked myths, or myabe not. My goal in this thread is to remove the feminine "charge" from bodily reactions so we can start being truley open about everyone's needs. How could that possibly undermine good training?

 

[CuriousMe]

but I definately have floating feet Butch I don't use ankle weights or anything, I just deal with it.

Originally posted by Butch103
on the sexism issue, but I would like a possible answer to the question...Do all women hacve floating feet ???...This is not a slam but alegit question...My wife and most every female I have dove with (5-6) have had problems with floating feet........Is this just a genetic anamoly <sp> ??

 

[Iguana Don]

Uh Oh!

 

[booga_roo]

I dived ONCE with a group of people who were AWFUL. I won't mention the shop or the town but I hired some kit from them and went for a dive with their shop based club. They gave me crappy equipment that didn't work and when I complained about it I got the definite vibe that I was just being a girlie and din't really know what I was doing as diving was a man's sport.

It was , through equipment failure and bad attitudes the worst dive I have ever done and I never went out with them again and if anyoe asks me about them I tell them to stay well clear.:moon:

Oh and I have floaty feet

 

[art.chick]

Yeah, that's another manifestation; presuming that equipment failure is just hysteria. A girl on another thread mentions a leaky snorkel & her ordeal not to be written off as a basket-case.