Subtle sexism among instructors

[art.chick]

I wondered if any of you had encountered subtle sexist remarks or behavior with male or female diving instructors, comments about how women get colder easier, get tired easier, are more bothered by abrasive gear, or disparaging comments about how all women students think you are groping them if you grab their BC straps for checkout dives?

WOmen have been diving for a very long time & most of us have learned from men. Nobody has ever refused to buddy with me because I'm a girl, but I think NAUI or PADI would really jump down the throat of an instructor who said, "Black students are slower learners" or "Asian students dive like they drive" or some other racial slur. Am I the only one who hears a variety of male instructors saying stuff about "anybody with a pink snorkel" (meaning women & gay men.)?

 

[Zept]

I wouldn't call any of those comments subtle... sounds more like blatant sexism to me! I think the diving world is changing, though. There don't seem to be many pairs of pink fins on the market now (although I have noticed a lot of purple gear... maybe purple is the new pink).

The people I dive with aren't at all competitive, so we don't get into any of that stuff. I guess I'm lucky.

Zept

 

[scuba-sass]

I've found a refreshing lack of sexism in my (limited) diving experience.

It started when my (female) partner and I were treading water the first day in the pool along side all of our (male) co-students. We were the only ones able to easily keep our heads above water, carry on casual conversation and joke with the instructors. The guys were huffin' and puffin' just to stay afloat. Let's here it for higher body fat content!

Happy Diving,

Scuba-sass

 

[wrecNcaver]

Originally posted by art.chick
I wondered if any of you had encountered subtle sexist remarks or behavior with male or female diving instructors, comments about how women get colder easier, get tired easier, are more bothered by abrasive gear, or disparaging comments about how all women students think you are groping them if you grab their BC straps for checkout dives?

I have found that things are changing a lot in the world of diving. You still have the hard core male divers who do not want to share the underwater world with women but I have seen less and less of this as the years have gone by. When I first started cold water wreck diving, the sexist remarks were not subtle. One time on a charter, as I was loading equipment, one of the divers said if he knew there was going to be a women on board, he would not have booked on that boat. (He has since changed, and we are friends) He also has a women dive buddy now.

Yes women do get cold faster but most women are better breathers, so it all evens out. When I started caving, I found that whole community of divers very open to women. It has been great. Best thing is that if you do encounter a male sexist instuctor, it is very easy to find another who is not. I have found the best way to deal with the sexist is just ignor him, he is the minority.

 

[art.chick]

Thanks, gals! I personally think that perception of the differences in sexes in the water is often a communication issue & one that we should understand. I'm not so sure that I am more scared, cold, uncomfortable, or tired than the men in the group; I believe that we women are less invested in the "macho" image that would keep us from admitting discomfort.

I learned to dive with my husband, & I expected him to be "brave" all the time because he talked tough. Imagine my surprise when he expressed his anxiety as "anger." This just plain confused me! There is a couple in a class I assist with now. She speaks up when she has a problem; he is less vocal, but seems to have just as many struggles with equipment & endurance.

I suppose the thing that eats me the most is male instructors & their male assistants who seem way too aware of the scantily clad students putting on their wetsuits (it never would have occured to me that someone would be trying so hard not to stare; I just put on the damn suit & get in the water.) But I suppose that for some people (teaching & learning) the class is an opportunity to date, just like any other activity.

I think it is important to reduce sexist language in diving education (I'm sure the blatant stuff is dying out). Why not just say "Some people get colder easier & it has nothing to do with how strong you are?" That takes the pressure off men to be "tough" when they should admit to problems instead of wrapping problems in "femininity." If everyone understands that it is normal to have a need & express it for safety's sake, I will feel safer for knowing that my buddy is not going to try to "tough it out" beyond his ability to manage.

And I think you are right that "purple is the new pink." To me, bright colors are a safety & identity thing; there are times that a pink, yellow or neon green snorkel or fins glow thru the muck & lead me back to my buddy. And I recognize specific people based on their underwater ensemble. Perhaps it is too much to ask for colorful wetsuits, but I would buy one!

 

[SubMariner]

I guess being from The Great White North (AKA Canada) the perception is basically "if you dive up here in this kind of water in these kinds of temps, then damn, you're a DIVER!" Gender never really played a part in it.

Now, that doesn't mean to say that when I did my IDC & IE in '94 I wasn't the only woman in the group. Then again the IE was in December in the fffffffreezing 34F waters of Innerkip Quarry... maybe that had more to do with how sane we IE Candidates were rather than with our genders? :cold:

While it's true that there are more women than there used to be in diving, there still aren't as many women at the Leadership Levels as there are men.

A rememberance: one long weekend in Tobermory, ON. I am sitting on a rock up to my chest in water, trying to stay cool in my 1/4" neoprene drysuit while my students are gearing up for their next dive. With me are three Divemasters, who are ALL female. And one lone male, the CD running the whole weekend. He looks around, as if for the first time, and says "Except for me this whole Leadership Group is female." We all eye him.. "So?" He breaks out in a huge grin "I think that is sooooo coool!" Apparently, this was the first time that had ever happened to him.

I'd like to think that's not so much of a rarety any more.

~SubMariner~

 

[art.chick]

Sub-Mariner,
I wish you could see my big Midwestern smile right now!

 

[wreckchick]

As a woman who has just completed her OW certification, I can say that the comments made about the differences between men and women in scuba were right on.

My instructor was a man, AI a woman, and the additional DM we had was a man.

You know what, I did get cold faster then the guys, my air went slower then the guys, and my feet do float.

I wasn't aware of any overt sexism on the part of anyone involves with my training or certification including the male owner of the LDS running the show.

Just my experience!

Rachel

P.S. I have a MUCH harder time with the way sexism is played out on the part of equipment manufacturers than with other divers.

 

[otter-cat]

I have no problem with legitimate discussion of actual physiological differences between genders in relation to diving. The comments from my instructors have never been derogatory or sexist, for which I am very glad. However, I still think that there is a lot of sexism among divers in general. There seem to be a lot of men diving who are predisposed to thinking that women are constantly in need of a little extra help, a little extra supervision. And while claiming not to be sexist, will tell you so in a tone of voice meant to mollify you, which makes it all the more condescending.

I won't get caught up in their macho masquerade and try to impress them by going beyond my own abilities, but I wish there was some way to make them notice that women divers are not incompetent weaklings! Suggestions?

otter-cat

(I agree with biscuit7 that there's also a big problem with the manufacturers!)

 

[jbd]

Just a friendly suggestion related to otter-cat's post. The way to get a man to notice that you(any female) are not an incompetent weakling is to not be one. The competence thing is really easy since any female can do anything of real importance in the realm of human activity that a man can do. The weakling issue is only slightly harder. Simply make sure that you are physically fit enough to participate in the activities of your choice and be wise enough to chose(in the case of scuba diving) gear that you can physically manage.

Even as big as I am physically, I doubt I will ever dive doubles. The reason--too much weight to pack around to have fun and I get enough heavy lifting around here on my little farm.

I will help my 12 year old daughter get her gear up on her back since it weighs 37% of her body weight and can easily throw her off balance which could end up causing an injury however I do expect her to manage everything else on her own. Although I haven't dove with many women I would probably ask a women the size of my daughter if she needed help if I saw she an AL 80 tank for the same reason--safety. I would also ask a small statured man if he needed help for the same reason.