Standardized Prices?

[TSandM]

You know, not ever in my 9 years of GUE diving have I felt pressured to change the brands of anything I own, and I deliberately own very little Halcyon equipment, simply because of the frequency with which people used to posit that GUE existed only as a way to make people buy Halcyon equipment.

I find it interesting that you would say, "If you're going to pay top dollar for instruction, you shouldn't cheap out on gear.". I don't think that I have "cheaped out" on gear, by buying a DSS backplate and wing, or a Light Monkey canister light (used). I bought good quality equipment from a respected brand, and often bought it used to keep the costs down. And until I got so cold diving in the winter that I decided to try Argon, I didn't inflate my dry suit with anything but my breathing gas.

If you are willing to agree that a diver in Puget Sound will need a dry suit, a BC, a set of regulators, some fins, and a dive light, I see little additional expense to going DIR. Yes, a 7' hose is more than a 24" hose -- but a number of regulator companies now offer a standard setup with a long hose, which costs nothing more than the traditional one. You don't HAVE to have a canister light, now that there are bright LED lights with excellent burn times, that you can get on a Goodman handle type setup. An awful lot of non-GUE divers around here are using them, because they're affordable, convenient, and make a great communication tool.

Not only that, but a DSS single tank setup is a couple hundred dollars cheaper than some of the high end jackets!

If you already own all your gear and it isn't what GUE prescribes, there is a major cost to changing, and I acknowledge that. It's one of the main things people list when I have asked why they weren't tempted to take Fundies. But once you have the basic equipment, the cost of DIR diving is no higher than any other sort of diving.

 

[jadairiii]

....I couldn't even get away with buying cheaper brass snap bolts... had to be SS (even though all these years later my brass ones are still working fine)......

I find this the most amusing only because 99% of the GUE divers will have no logical explanation, if asked, as to "why" SS is better than brass. Yet there is a very good reason, but if you don't care about the "reason" then brass works just as well.

And to preface the "just as well" I have has SS ones fail in a couple of years and I have some brass clips that are over 20 years old and still solid.

 

[LiteHedded]

I find this the most amusing only because 99% of the GUE divers will have no logical explanation, if asked, as to "why" SS is better than brass. Yet there is a very good reason, but if you don't care about the "reason" then brass works just as well.

And to preface the "just as well" I have has SS ones fail in a couple of years and I have some brass clips that are over 20 years old and still solid.

what's the very good reason?

 

[jadairiii]

what's the very good reason?

Brand new brass clips are like freaking razor blades, cut the crap out of your fingers when new. As they age they dull (from cutting your skin), but I still remember those nasty slices on my thumbs, especially when you are cleaning the lobsters at the end of the day and feel all that good lobster juice going into your cuts!

 

[PfcAJ]

Back when I was looking at it:

How much for a canlight, how much for a Scout. How much more was the H on the BP/W. How about the H on a SMB. What kind of drysuit is that, what do you inflate it with? Will my Scuba Pro regs work or will I be persuaded to go Apex. I couldn't even get away with buying cheaper brass snap bolts... had to be SS (even though all these years later my brass ones are still working fine). Standardization creates a certain sort of peer pressure to conform to what is status quo. How many times are people told to accept the importance of the whole enchilada and stop taking it piece meal and I assume that extends to gear.

Sure we know you don't need all those things, or the brand names, but as has been said many times in this thread "you get what you pay for" and "quality costs more". It seems contradictory to pay extra for quality instruction and then cheap out on gear. Sort of individualistic or defeatist to take that stance in that regime. Experienced divers can discern between what the book says, and what reality dictates, but we are talking about people who are at the entry level.

People at the entry level mustn't buy Halcyon gear or switch their snaps to stainless. These are myths that are constantly debunked.

It IS expensive to move from a jacket BC to a backplate and wing, but it doesn't have to be ridiculous. All this stuff comes up on the used market regularly and all the details regarding what works and what doesn't is freely available on the internet.

The gear prices over the years haven't really gone up. If anything, they're lower as there are more manufacturers and more used items on the market. Its the course prices that have skyrocketed.

---------- Post added August 21st, 2014 at 01:37 PM ----------

Brand new brass clips are like freaking razor blades, cut the crap out of your fingers when new. As they age they dull (from cutting your skin), but I still remember those nasty slices on my thumbs, especially when you are cleaning the lobsters at the end of the day and feel all that good lobster juice going into your cuts!

I've been FILLETED by stainless snaps. They all do it.

Crappy brass ones seize up, but so do crappy stainless ones. If anything, I think there is a general tendency for stainless ones to seize up less, but its minor. They do, however, look cooler.

 

[LiteHedded]

yea i call BS on that. i dont own any brass snaps and my fingers are regularly cut to ribbons

 

[jadairiii]

I've been FILLETED by stainless snaps. They all do it.

Crappy brass ones seize up, but so do crappy stainless ones. If anything, I think there is a general tendency for stainless ones to seize up less, but its minor. They do, however, look cooler.

I must be lucky, never cut with quality SS snaps. Crappy snaps are crappy snaps though, but Quality brass have never given me any problems (other than cuts) and I have some that are older then some of the posters on here.

Maybe because I always dive salt water but I lube both my brass or SS snaps regularly, if I don't they both seize, regardless of the type, actually I have more rust problems with the springs on the SS snaps. Watched a very expensive SUEX drift away from a diver due to a quality SS snap that failed, lucky I was down range to collect it.

But as for the "reason" that was the reason in 1997, maybe the SS snaps have gotten cheaper over the years......

 

[LiteHedded]

I must be lucky, never cut with quality SS snaps. Crappy snaps are crappy snaps though, but Quality brass have never given me any problems (other than cuts) and I have some that are older then some of the posters on here.

Maybe because I always dive salt water but I lube both my brass or SS snaps regularly, if I don't they both seize, regardless of the type, actually I have more rust problems with the springs on the SS snaps. Watched a very expensive SUEX drift away from a diver due to a quality SS snap that failed, lucky I was down range to collect it.

But as for the "reason" that was the reason in 1997, maybe the SS snaps have gotten cheaper over the years......

the problem is there's no way to tell a quality snap until it fails. they all cut. stages, wetnotes, light head. all the snaps are suspect

/offtopic

 

[mathauck0814]

I've been FILLETED by stainless snaps. They all do it.

Oh thank god, I've found something we california divers can cling to as better than Florida. The water's too bloody cold to be using a bolt snap bare handed

Wait... that's probably not a benefit. Damn you and your awesome diving environments!

 

[eelnoraa]

I agree that Fundies is expensive, but honestly, it's not more expensive than two or three PADI specialties, and people do those all the time. If they put their funds together and went ahead and sprang for the more expensive class, they'd get better training and come out closer to where they want to be in the end. I can't convince people of that.

This is what I have been telling people. If I were to recommend a friend to start diving, I will recommend do PADI OW, then skip AOW, Nitrox and drysuit from PADI. Do some diving, then go to fundie. This will produce better divers. PADI OW because it is easily accessable, less commitment from student's side. Chances are OW student don't even like diving after some experience. But man, looking back now, my AOW, Nitrox and Drysuit are jokes.