Standardized Prices?

[LiteHedded]

I figured out right when I started cavern diving that the GUE path was something I wanted to go down. I had big goals in diving (still do). The things I wanted to see and do eventually were quite lofty for a 17 year old kid just starting out. I still remember those days, and that's why the pricing thing grinds my gears so much. The large jump in price + the extra length of Fundaments makes even starting out with GUE unattainable to people who are in the same position I was 10 years ago.

If things 10 years ago were the way they are now, I wonder where I'd be?

in china

 

[gitterdun]

Someone mentioned a cave course in Mexico, costing $2500... Just as a side note, that does include all of your entry fees, tanks, breathing gas, and if staying in PA, they will also pick you up. That definitely has value, in my opinion.

 

[charlier]

Lynne, I completely agree that Fundies does is jump start the learning process -- including diving as a very good buddy team (sometimes overlooked by many divers). I wonder if GUE could start a scholarship programme for Fundies that is targeted to novice divers on need basis. Lynne pointed out that there are many instructors out there that teach non-GUE OW classes that have had GUE training. My daughter was PADA certified (OW, AOW, Nitrox) by a GUE instructor - her skills and awareness are way better than the training I received during my OW class. One a similar topic, perhaps GUE should reach out and try to train non-GUE DM's or instructors. As PfcAJ commented, these costs might be prohibitive for many aspiring instructors or DM's.

 

[TSandM]

I had a very interesting discussion with Jarrod Jablonski when he was out here a year ago. I told him I was probably going to end up being a PADI instructor, and he asked me why I would do that instead of going with GUE. And I told him that I really didn't think it was worth it to go through the GUE instructor development process, only to learn to teach a class that no one takes. (I could not be a Fundies instructor, just OW, because I haven't taken and don't intend to take Tech 1.). But I could take everything I've learned from them and pass on as much of it as I can to my students, as I have seen my husband do over the last five years.

I agree that Fundies is expensive, but honestly, it's not more expensive than two or three PADI specialties, and people do those all the time. If they put their funds together and went ahead and sprang for the more expensive class, they'd get better training and come out closer to where they want to be in the end. I can't convince people of that.

 

[DaleC]

Everybody gets into diving for different reasons. My goals are fish study and videography. Being a productive diver in that way is perfecting technique to me. What I need is a core competency equal to those tasks. The people I enjoy diving with most (photogs with the same core competency) also aren't putting money into diving courses. They are investing in cameras, housings, lights, photography training and excursions for picture opportunities.

Could GUE/UTD/DIR training accomplish the diving part.. certainly. It's a great framework for those who choose it. But can those same goals be attained by mainstream training at a lower cost.. also certainly. The proof is in the many many people who are doing so every day. They have good technique, team skills, dive plans because they choose to. The information is out there. Those who don't, choose not to, don't care, or don't dive enough to know the difference.

Lynne you say fundies is equal to several mainstream courses (quite bit more I think) but I can take OW and dive.. when I'm limited by my training I can take AOW and dive.. when I'm limited by that I can take XYZ and dive some more... meanwhile you still haven't done dive one because you are saving up for fundies (well rec I or what ever it's called but you get the point). But I still argue you are not buying only training, you are adopting a system, and diving within that system costs considerably more than diving outside it. I think most people get that and factor in the whole enchilada when making such decisions.

 

[TSandM]

Apart from diving Nitrox, what's more expensive? (And I would dive Nitrox anyway, because I'm old and it makes me feel better.). Gear is gear; once you have what you need, the cost of diving is the cost of filling tanks or chartering boats.

 

[DaleC]

Back when I was looking at it:

How much for a canlight, how much for a Scout. How much more was the H on the BP/W. How about the H on a SMB. What kind of drysuit is that, what do you inflate it with? Will my Scuba Pro regs work or will I be persuaded to go Apex. I couldn't even get away with buying cheaper brass snap bolts... had to be SS (even though all these years later my brass ones are still working fine). Standardization creates a certain sort of peer pressure to conform to what is status quo. How many times are people told to accept the importance of the whole enchilada and stop taking it piece meal and I assume that extends to gear.

Sure we know you don't need all those things, or the brand names, but as has been said many times in this thread "you get what you pay for" and "quality costs more". It seems contradictory to pay extra for quality instruction and then cheap out on gear. Sort of individualistic or defeatist to take that stance in that regime. Experienced divers can discern between what the book says, and what reality dictates, but we are talking about people who are at the entry level.

 

[mathauck0814]

I wonder if GUE could start a scholarship programme for Fundies that is targeted to novice divers on need basis.

I don't see how subsidizing diver training at the lower level would lead to greater rewards downstream. Sounds more like kicking the can. Today people complain about the cost of Fundies. In this system we'd just have people complaining about the cost of Tec1.

Lynne pointed out that there are many instructors out there that teach non-GUE OW classes that have had GUE training. My daughter was PADA certified (OW, AOW, Nitrox) by a GUE instructor - her skills and awareness are way better than the training I received during my OW class. One a similar topic, perhaps GUE should reach out and try to train non-GUE DM's or instructors. As PfcAJ commented, these costs might be prohibitive for many aspiring instructors or DM's.

This is really the only place where a "bargain" exists. Finding a recreational instructor who has the DIR background and is willing to teach newbies will undoubtedly get you more bang for your buck. You're obviously going to get more from a GUE Tec2 or PSAI (or similar) full trimix instructor who happens to be running an open water course than you're going to get from the guy fresh out of the instructor mill.

 

[rivers]

Has anyone not heard of putting money aside in order to save for a class or bits of kit they want? I am not made of money, I have a decent paying job, and can live comfortably but not anything resembling a high flying lifestyle. Up until 2 months ago, I was struggling living in London. I need to budget my fun (diving) money every month. I saved for the better part of this year for Rec 3. And when I moved to twins, I was borrowing spare kit off of friends while I pieced together my own (most of it used).
If people really want training through GUE, they will make it happen. Even if it means putting it off for 6 months while they save the money for the course.

 

[DaleC]

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