DIR- Generic GUE Standards Update (v 10.1)

[ginti]

ETA: In hindsight, my response competes with @crofrog 's in terms of redundancy - but, whatev...

First off, no - only Rec1 (OW) was required to take Fundies and pursue a tech pass. Second, and most notably, this road was **rarely** ever taken.

Not sure why you are answering this way, but no problem. Anyway, Rec1 is an OW class so the path you describe here is just included in the next one... anyway not a huge deal

Again, no - "almost all divers who approached fundies did [+not] already have a rescue card".

I am a member of one of the oldest and largest GUE communities in North America (and IIRC, the World) - I am prefacing with that to be able to say that a lot of divers taking Fundies here (and elsewhere), if not the entire cohort in some class instances, are just OW divers, sometimes AOW.

I met only 2 out of all of those I know who went to fundies without having a rescue first, and these 2 went the GUE route so early only because they knew already other GUE divers (I imagine if the standards were requiring rescue, it would not have been a big deal for them)

Just different experiences maybe

Though I agree with you that "having some rescue training which is quite important," that isn't what you were asserting.

Actually, that is what I was asserting

 

[crofrog]

Anyway, even if for a few people it could be annoying, overall I consider it a huge improvement

How many GUE-trained divers have experienced an incident that required skills taught in a rescue class?
Of those incidents, how many were mishandled in such a way that rescue training could have positively influenced the outcome?
Would adding two extra days of training focused on accident prevention reduce the rate of incidents in the first place, if you're balancing that training time between prevention and response which would lower the rate of death or serious injury more?

Without discussing those metrics I think it's hard to say if it's a "huge" improvement.

Looking at the content for the rescue primer, at least half of it is addressed in the existing classes.

• Accident Prevention and Stress Management:
  • Causes of stress and accident prevention are already integral to GUE training materials, including Fundamentals.
  • While signs of stress could be more thoroughly covered, this could likely be addressed with a 10-minute lecture.
  • Stress management is emphasized in every failure-based class through principles like "stop, stabilize, reference the line," etc.
  • Diving accident dynamics and prevention are foundational topics in every GUE course.
• Unique Contributions of the Rescue Primer:
  • The primer introduces a specific GUE rescue SOP and sequence, which provides a common framework distinct from PADI’s rescue course.
  • The treatment of diving injuries is notably more detailed in GUE’s rescue primer compared to PADI’s coursework, particularly on a physiological level.
  • Egression Techniques should ideally be incorporated into scenario-based training across all courses. Proper egression planning, including considerations like technical rope work for cenote rescues or tactics for surf exits and RIB recoveries, cannot be adequately covered in a two-day class. These scenarios should instead be included in dive site briefings and risk assessments.
• Basic Life Support (BLS):

 

[JoeTPhilly]

I met only 2 out of all of those I know who went to fundies without having a rescue first, and these 2 went the GUE route so early only because they knew already other GUE divers (I imagine if the standards were requiring rescue, it would not have been a big deal for them)

Just different experiences maybe

I also went through without rescue as I took Fundies - Rec. very early after AOW. I just had to learn the unconscious diver lift when doing my Tech pass upgrade.

 

[JoeTPhilly]

Here is a video some might find interesting from an instructor going over some of the changes:

 

[ginti]

@crofrog sorry, but I don't see it that way. Quickly, 3 points:

1) In a small group, it is relatively easy to ensure high standards. In a big organization, the only way I know is to make standards stricter - which is what GUE is doing now. Likely, in the past rescue training was sufficiently spread, and there was no need to enforce it. Probably, now the situation is changing (too many people with insufficient rescue skills going for tech classes) and they are enforcing it.

2) It's like seatbelts; how many people really need them? But if it happens that you need them, you better have them.

3) It is not really important if something is just "covered" in a class - but also "how" it is covered. In GUE tech classes, it never looked enough for me, otherwise I would not be thinking about taking another rescue class just to refresh

But that's just me - if you strongly believe otherwise, we will need to agree on disagreeing

 

[whynot]

Looking at the content for the rescue primer, at least half of it is addressed in the existing classes.

- this curriculum is clearly inadequate as it doesn't include my patented tired diver tow method facilitated via a halcyon life raft and a DPV. See below for a demonstration of the skill:

 

[crofrog]

2) It's like seatbelts; how many people really need them? But if it happens that you need them, you better have them.

Seatbelts are a poor analogy. They help prevent and reduce injury.

- this curriculum is clearly inadequate as it doesn't include my patented tired diver tow method facilitated via a halcyon life raft and a DPV. See below for a demonstration of the skill:


View attachment 874305

I thought I was the only one.

 

[NothingClever]

I've not prioritized the rescue class because frankly I didn't see a significant amount of value in it for me. I've had TCCC-CLS training, BLS training, wilderness first aid training, and mountain rescue training.

Perzackly.

The only Rescue class I was interested in taking was from an 18D pal of mine. I've wanted him to turn up the volume to 11 and he's been game to do it but unfortunately he's been offline for awhile.

 

[argyris]

PADIR at last...

 

[Nosmosis]

On Page 66, section 3.2.1.8 it says that a corded primary light is required for a Technical Fundamentals pass.

Wasn’t that always the standard? I thought that’s why i did it in doubles, drysuit and with a corded light?