I'm still waiting to hear CaseManager's reaction to this new information.
You still with us CaseManager...the ball is in your court.
Jeff
You still with us CaseManager...the ball is in your court.
Jeff
Spiegel Grove??
- Thread starter casemanager
- Start date
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Casemanager has not logged onto SB in 23 hours - I guess he hasn't seen it.
DandyDon:
Don,
Can someone have more than one ScubaBoard account from the same computer?
Jeff
Life-Is-Good-Diver
Contributor
ljINfla:
I couldn't agree more, It's a shame, cause i was there 2 year's ago, and blamed it on everyone else but myself also, but 2 year's later, i know how to deal with it, and control it from happening, and if i do feel like the heart starts racing Little faster, i slow down, and watch my breathing. Case-manager all i can say is at least your all right, and like i said before, first look at yourself, you're abilities, and past dive experience, stay shallow for a while , and build up your confidence. I dive the Spiegel allot, living here in FL, but I'm comfortable with the dive, and the depth's, currents, etc, but nobody could control your attack, but yourself. Prevent it, maybe, I do also agree the Spiegel shouldn't be used for a advanced OW course, but they do it all the time.
Life-Is-Good-Diver
Contributor
jtoorish:
I don't think so, cause the admins can check Ip's, but you can have different email address's , and sign under different account's that way if I'm not mistaken.
- Messages
- 54,075
- Reaction score
- 8,223
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- 500 - 999
It happens, called Sock Puppets - violation of the TOS. That's pretty speculative, tho.jtoorish:
Yep, with different emails addresses, and no reason to check, it could happen.FLTEKDIVER:
He could also read this without logging on, as far as speculative possibilities go.
I would suspect that he will log on, see this, and then - won't be back. Or that my guess anyway.
Life-Is-Good-Diver
Contributor
DandyDon:
Wow, I'll have to scroll back, i missed something, wasn't paying attention to the last few page's.,
2Tours N Iraq`
Contributor
Obviously there are several factors leading to this incident but I would like to make a few comments on some of the posts on here. First and foremost, I agree instructors should hold students to standards and not pass them because they paid for the course. Think about how the job market would be today if college professors passed everyone regardless of whether or not they met the standard. Would you want THAT kind of neurosurgeon working on you?
This next comment might come as a shock to some but I think it shouldn't. You have a responsibility to be cognizant of ALL divers around you and look out for their well being at ALL times. STUDENTS have a responsibility to look out for their own well being as well as that of their insturctor. When my instructor began to get low on air during my check out dives, I was extra cognizant of her remaining pressure and stayed close to her in case she needed air. She exited with 600 psi left, an acceptable pressure level but I still looked out for her.
Students also must gain the academic knowledge required for the level of certification they are seeking. This will make them better divers as they understand dive theory and principles. STUDENTS MUST HOLD THEMSELVES TO STANDARD AND BE ACCOUNTABLE TO DEMONSTRATE THEM. I feel it is the responsibility of the student to be honest with themselves and their instructors. Students who with-hold information from their instructor are endangering not only themselves but their fellow divers as well. I chatted with my instructor last night and she said I was the first student she has had who was conerned about her well being.
Numbers are a great guideline for the experience level of a diver but they aren't the whole story. I've only got 5 logged dives breathing compressed air but I've been snorkeling for the past 20+ years so I've been able to develop quality diving skills. Quality diving is a skill set that needs to always be worked on, regardless of the number of dives you have. I think quality of a diver should determine when an instructor feels a student is ready for AOW and higher certs. I also feel students should know their experience level and determine when they are ready for the AOW cert and evaluate themselves objectively. Just because you WANT to continue diving doesn't mean you are ready for the AOW cert. Even though my instructor feels I am a quality diver, I know I am no where near ready to go for my AOW cert (regardless how easy it is now) as I feel I need more time in the water to get completely comfortable with my gear. I feel it is my responsibility to be able to do anything with my gear (except read my guages) just by touch on the first time. Right now I have to look where my guages clip to my BC and I don't feel I am ready for my AOW cert until I have the ability/comfort with my gear to do that.
Mindset is also a key factor in the quality of a diver. Obviously we all have different experiences in life that shape who we are but I'm a firm believer in the proper training will reap huge dividends. Maybe I'm old-school in my thought process but training is the only thing going to save your butt in a sticky situation you have never experienced before. The ability to control your mind and not panic when the walls are caving in on you is THE single most important thing anyone can learn in life, not just diving.
If anyone would like to know more of my thoughts on this or some of my experiences to make me feel this way, please feel free to PM me.
This next comment might come as a shock to some but I think it shouldn't. You have a responsibility to be cognizant of ALL divers around you and look out for their well being at ALL times. STUDENTS have a responsibility to look out for their own well being as well as that of their insturctor. When my instructor began to get low on air during my check out dives, I was extra cognizant of her remaining pressure and stayed close to her in case she needed air. She exited with 600 psi left, an acceptable pressure level but I still looked out for her.
Students also must gain the academic knowledge required for the level of certification they are seeking. This will make them better divers as they understand dive theory and principles. STUDENTS MUST HOLD THEMSELVES TO STANDARD AND BE ACCOUNTABLE TO DEMONSTRATE THEM. I feel it is the responsibility of the student to be honest with themselves and their instructors. Students who with-hold information from their instructor are endangering not only themselves but their fellow divers as well. I chatted with my instructor last night and she said I was the first student she has had who was conerned about her well being.
Numbers are a great guideline for the experience level of a diver but they aren't the whole story. I've only got 5 logged dives breathing compressed air but I've been snorkeling for the past 20+ years so I've been able to develop quality diving skills. Quality diving is a skill set that needs to always be worked on, regardless of the number of dives you have. I think quality of a diver should determine when an instructor feels a student is ready for AOW and higher certs. I also feel students should know their experience level and determine when they are ready for the AOW cert and evaluate themselves objectively. Just because you WANT to continue diving doesn't mean you are ready for the AOW cert. Even though my instructor feels I am a quality diver, I know I am no where near ready to go for my AOW cert (regardless how easy it is now) as I feel I need more time in the water to get completely comfortable with my gear. I feel it is my responsibility to be able to do anything with my gear (except read my guages) just by touch on the first time. Right now I have to look where my guages clip to my BC and I don't feel I am ready for my AOW cert until I have the ability/comfort with my gear to do that.
Mindset is also a key factor in the quality of a diver. Obviously we all have different experiences in life that shape who we are but I'm a firm believer in the proper training will reap huge dividends. Maybe I'm old-school in my thought process but training is the only thing going to save your butt in a sticky situation you have never experienced before. The ability to control your mind and not panic when the walls are caving in on you is THE single most important thing anyone can learn in life, not just diving.
If anyone would like to know more of my thoughts on this or some of my experiences to make me feel this way, please feel free to PM me.
Big Mike
Guest
Several things:
First of all, I read only the first couple and then the last page of this thread.
Second, SPIEGEL GROVE is an ADVANCED DIVE. It is considered that for a REASON...people do and have died doing it...factors such as current, viz & wave action can and do change quickly at its location.
Third...many Keys Dive ops will take you anywhere you want to go, as long as you have the money. SOME Won't, but most will. Some will take you out in weather that no one should be diving in.
Fourth...I have over 100 dives in FL KEYS as well as 3 on the Spiegel...which doesn't make me an "expert" but I do have EXPERIENCE with that AREA and that SPECIFIC DIVE LOCATION.
Those things being said, IN MY OPINION
a) You were GROSSLY UNDERQUALIFIED to be diving the Grove. 24 dives in 6 years is great for the POOL or a QUARRY, but not a DEEP OCEAN dive! Use of power inflator to ascend is only additional proof of this statement.
b) Your looking for help from non-existent buddy should be a wake-up call for you and anyother diver that thinks they can depend on anyone but themselves in an emergency. Also, your "buddy" can often get you in trouble! In this situation, if your buddy was paying attention, you could have dragged him to the surface with your power inflator and got BOTH of you in trouble. (I travel by myself frequently to the Keys. On those trips I get "pot luck" on buddies. I will talk with them on the ride out to discover their experience & ability. I have in the past, and will in the future as needed, REFUSE TO DIVE with a buddy that I feel is unqualified! I've never had a dive op try to make me dive with anyone I felt was a danger.)
c) You should go back to 30 foot reef dives and get 40 or 50 more under your belt (within a year or 2...not 10!) Until you are able to handle all problems QUICKLY & PROPERLY without having to THINK before reacting.
You were given a SECOND CHANCE on this one. Many in your position DON'T GET THAT OPPORTUNITY. Frankly, I think the DOCTOR made a PRUDENT STATEMENT...if you can't DO IT RIGHT, QUIT DIVING!
Mike
First of all, I read only the first couple and then the last page of this thread.
Second, SPIEGEL GROVE is an ADVANCED DIVE. It is considered that for a REASON...people do and have died doing it...factors such as current, viz & wave action can and do change quickly at its location.
Third...many Keys Dive ops will take you anywhere you want to go, as long as you have the money. SOME Won't, but most will. Some will take you out in weather that no one should be diving in.
Fourth...I have over 100 dives in FL KEYS as well as 3 on the Spiegel...which doesn't make me an "expert" but I do have EXPERIENCE with that AREA and that SPECIFIC DIVE LOCATION.
Those things being said, IN MY OPINION
a) You were GROSSLY UNDERQUALIFIED to be diving the Grove. 24 dives in 6 years is great for the POOL or a QUARRY, but not a DEEP OCEAN dive! Use of power inflator to ascend is only additional proof of this statement.
b) Your looking for help from non-existent buddy should be a wake-up call for you and anyother diver that thinks they can depend on anyone but themselves in an emergency. Also, your "buddy" can often get you in trouble! In this situation, if your buddy was paying attention, you could have dragged him to the surface with your power inflator and got BOTH of you in trouble. (I travel by myself frequently to the Keys. On those trips I get "pot luck" on buddies. I will talk with them on the ride out to discover their experience & ability. I have in the past, and will in the future as needed, REFUSE TO DIVE with a buddy that I feel is unqualified! I've never had a dive op try to make me dive with anyone I felt was a danger.)
c) You should go back to 30 foot reef dives and get 40 or 50 more under your belt (within a year or 2...not 10!) Until you are able to handle all problems QUICKLY & PROPERLY without having to THINK before reacting.
You were given a SECOND CHANCE on this one. Many in your position DON'T GET THAT OPPORTUNITY. Frankly, I think the DOCTOR made a PRUDENT STATEMENT...if you can't DO IT RIGHT, QUIT DIVING!
Mike
LJinFLA
Contributor
Mike,
I agree wholeheartedly with every point, but you really should read the rest.
LJ
I agree wholeheartedly with every point, but you really should read the rest.
LJ
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