Spiegel Grove??

[octgal]

actually i may know, who you are! I see you are a cave instructor, so no i do not think you are full of crap. I'm not someone to go beyond what i am ready for, i am sure of one thing and that is i am ready for rescue certification.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

No I am NOT a Cave Instructor. LOL (PM sent as per request) If I ever thought that I could be that good I would be full of crap. ROFLMAO.

35 dives is all I really need to know. You may be one in a zillion, but I doubt it.

 

[DandyDon]

A little off topic sort of...

I have not looked at dan's web site for medical opinions so I don't know.Do they have scuba doctors on line to answer questions?.

They are in the business of selling insurance, no?

Nope! They do offer dive insurance in addition to the member services and free services to anyone, but this is not at all their reason for existing. You are welcome to look into this great organization.

BTW, if I got my insurance elsewhere, I'd still be a member of DAN. Great organization.

I use the scubadoc site. They have been fantastic in getting back to me promtly and treating each case on it's own merits. The folks are all doctors who dive or doctors who are trained in diving related injuries and areas.

Not putting dan down or anything but seems a little off to go to an insurance company for medical advice...

Both are good sources. Perhpas you should look into DAn tho...?

 

[pilot fish]

actually i may know, who you are! I see you are a cave instructor, so no i do not think you are full of crap. I'm not someone to go beyond what i am ready for, i am sure of one thing and that is i am ready for rescue certification.

Hi. I'm not sure the great majority of us are ready for cave diving. An overhead for long periods of time and only one way out would unnerve me . I think it not only takes a considerable amount of dives but a certain temperment, which I don't think I have. You really need to think this through before you attempt it and make sure you are with VERY QUALIFIED PEOPLE FIRST.

 

[octgal]

35 dives is all I really need to know. You may be one in a zillion, but I doubt it.

point made, happy to drop it now

 

[HowardE]

I agree with the sentiment expressed by pilotfish, when it comes to getting AOW. I think there should be a minimum number of LOGGED dives required to attain a "advanced" certification... As I approach my 100th dive (hopefully next weekend, would have been this weekend, but Wilma) I think about all of the things I've learned about myself and about diving, since my 50th dive... and how much more that was since my 20th dive.
It seems to me that so many people are in a race to get c-cards to prove their "expertise" I guess. It seems irresponsible of the certifying agencies to just make it so damn easy to get these "advanced" certifications. As I have said in the past here on SB... EXPERIENCE shouldn't be confused with a card that says you are advanced.
My wife and I didn't get our advanced cert until after our 50th dive. Really the only reason we got the AOW was so that we could dive the grove, whereas most dive ops require the AOW card to dive it... Even though we had logged more than 40 dives at depths deeper than 60' when we actually got our AOW, and had several logged dives to 90' or more.
I have often read here on SB instances of many people being "advanced" with 10 dives or less?!? That just doesn't make sense.

I know that some agencies require more than others, but it seems like they (cert agencies) are mostly just looking for money and ways to have more students.

I know this is mostly off topic here, but maybe something should start here, in an effort to produce more safe divers? Anyone agree?

 

[ClevelandDiver]

I agree with the sentiment expressed by pilotfish, when it comes to getting AOW. I think there should be a minimum number of LOGGED dives required to attain a "advanced" certification... As I approach my 100th dive (hopefully next weekend, would have been this weekend, but Wilma) I think about all of the things I've learned about myself and about diving, since my 50th dive... and how much more that was since my 20th dive.
It seems to me that so many people are in a race to get c-cards to prove their "expertise" I guess. It seems irresponsible of the certifying agencies to just make it so damn easy to get these "advanced" certifications. As I have said in the past here on SB... EXPERIENCE shouldn't be confused with a card that says you are advanced.
My wife and I didn't get our advanced cert until after our 50th dive. Really the only reason we got the AOW was so that we could dive the grove, whereas most dive ops require the AOW card to dive it... Even though we had logged more than 40 dives at depths deeper than 60' when we actually got our AOW, and had several logged dives to 90' or more.
I have often read here on SB instances of many people being "advanced" with 10 dives or less?!? That just doesn't make sense.

I know that some agencies require more than others, but it seems like they (cert agencies) are mostly just looking for money and ways to have more students.

I know this is mostly off topic here, but maybe something should start here, in an effort to produce more safe divers? Anyone agree?

Howard,

I agree with you and it has been discussed on the board numerous times. But, as you stated, the agencies are too busy chasing the dollars. Only a massive payout on a lawsuit would get their attention.

 

[*Floater*]

The shop where I took my nitrox course bills it's AOW course as follows: "The smartest thing to do after you complete your basic course is to sign up for an Advanced Openwater Course. The course will give you the opportunity to complete six more dives under the supervision of one of our instructors. Our goal is to take a competent diver and make him into a confident diver." (I won't name the shop, but you can google the quote if you are interested).

I'm fine with that rationale. I think if you've done a ton of dives before AOW, then you may end up learning nothing new from it unless the instructor tailors it specifically for you or otherwise goes beyond the program.

Also, I think consenting adults should be allowed to sign up for whatever training they feel they are ready to complete if someone is willing to teach them, but I would also hope that dive shops would be responsible enough to fail them if they turn out not to be ready.

 

[pilot fish]

I agree with the sentiment expressed by pilotfish, when it comes to getting AOW. I think there should be a minimum number of LOGGED dives required to attain a "advanced" certification... As I approach my 100th dive (hopefully next weekend, would have been this weekend, but Wilma) I think about all of the things I've learned about myself and about diving, since my 50th dive... and how much more that was since my 20th dive.
It seems to me that so many people are in a race to get c-cards to prove their "expertise" I guess. It seems irresponsible of the certifying agencies to just make it so damn easy to get these "advanced" certifications. As I have said in the past here on SB... EXPERIENCE shouldn't be confused with a card that says you are advanced.
My wife and I didn't get our advanced cert until after our 50th dive. Really the only reason we got the AOW was so that we could dive the grove, whereas most dive ops require the AOW card to dive it... Even though we had logged more than 40 dives at depths deeper than 60' when we actually got our AOW, and had several logged dives to 90' or more.
I have often read here on SB instances of many people being "advanced" with 10 dives or less?!? That just doesn't make sense.

I know that some agencies require more than others, but it seems like they (cert agencies) are mostly just looking for money and ways to have more students.

I know this is mostly off topic here, but maybe something should start here, in an effort to produce more safe divers? Anyone agree?

Well said, Howard. As I've said in the past, just because you're certified does not mean you are qualified. Experience is the key to all of it. I did not get my AOW till I had 85 dives. I really started to feel very confident at about 50 dives. It was then I realized how bad some of my previous diving had been and how many chances I had taken.

 

[pilot fish]

The shop where I took my nitrox course bills it's AOW course as follows: "The smartest thing to do after you complete your basic course is to sign up for an Advanced Openwater Course. The course will give you the opportunity to complete six more dives under the supervision of one of our instructors. Our goal is to take a competent diver and make him into a confident diver." (I won't name the shop, but you can google the quote if you are interested).

That is blatant cash chasing. The smartest thing to do, they mean for their bottom line :05: