Spiegel Grove??

[scubatwinned]

First off - I am glad you are ok and we didn't read about you in the dive accidents email list. Now on to other thoughts --



First when you start to panic you will get tunnel vision and also miss a lot of the obvious. People could have been much closer than you realized. I find it hard to believe that there were 4 dive professionals working in the water and none were aware of what was going on. Maybe it is the case - but something seems awry here.

Second - you have as much responsibility to stay with your buddy as your buddy has to stay with you. As a certified diver - you should have known where your buddy was or that s/he was even gone before you had the problems.

Your posts read as if you are blaming everybody else for not doing their jobs and keeping you "safe." Even if you were taking your advanced class --- you are still a certified diver out there and have the ultimate responsibility for your welfare.

You don't have much experience -- 25 dives over 6 years is not a lot. How many dives do you have in the year before this experience? You should get more time in the water - doing easy-peasy dives in varying conditions before pushing yourself harder. Just because you did 105' on air in HI doesn't mean you can do it comfortably everywhere else. You were in conditions you have never experienced.
Kimber

HERE HERE!!! well said

 

[scubatwinned]

Was DAN consulted about the meds and history before the dive...?

A little off topic sort of...

I have not looked at dan's web site for medical opinions so I don't know.Do they have scuba doctors on line to answer questions?.

They are in the business of selling insurance, no?

I use the scubadoc site. They have been fantastic in getting back to me promtly and treating each case on it's own merits. The folks are all doctors who dive or doctors who are trained in diving related injuries and areas.

Not putting dan down or anything but seems a little off to go to an insurance company for medical advice...

 

[Scuba_Steve]

.......I also understand that it is a problem created by the certifying agencies, not the instructors. But I think an instructor could at least suggest that someone get a few more dives before doing their advance certification.........

Absolutely, and absolutely.

Unfortunately it seems to me the agencies are mostly worried about profits, and not the Instructors liability, student safety or making better/safer divers. So in the end you're looking out for your own butt as an Instructor OR a student diver. If they (Agency) did, they would have sorted crap like this out longer before I ever took my first breath on scuba.

Since the student in all likelyhood does not have that side sorted out yet, the poop falls totally on the Instructor, like it or not.

Sounds like a good gig doesn't it?

 

[octgal]

ok, did he not say it was a patch for motion? I thought that was different then patch for smoking! i could be wrong. On his behalf, i think you are all being a little hard on him. My dive school says, that they would like around 15 dives before you start your advanced. I started mine at 20 my buddy only had 12 under her belt. While on our deep dive my instructor literally held my hand (my choice) all was fine, and he stuck like glue on me. The other girl on the course was with another instructor for this dive as well. ONE on ONE. No one should go to depth for the first time with someone else that also has not been there!?!!!! You cannot blame this poor guy for panicing, it happens, his instructor should have been on top of the situation! no excuse.
Our course went great as we had great instructors, but no one can tell me now that i wasn't ready at 20 dives, i was fine because the course was run professionally and properly. If this guy has only 20 dives over 6 years, a refreaher should have been offered according to his history. As for going 105 when not certified, well you are on your own on that one, but this thread is for the incident.

 

[pilot fish]

This goes back to what I've carped about a while ago here on the board. A diver should have some minimum number of dives before they are allowed to go for AOW- somewhere between 30 & 50. This crapola of letting divers get AOW while getting OW is not wise.

 

[octgal]

well i agree with that pilot fish OW and AOW is not wise. I'm at 35 dives now and think it would be crap if someone told me i wasn't ready for Advanced. In fact i'm going for Cave next and rescue soon. It also helps that my instructor knows what i'm like in the water as we have dived many times.

 

[ClevelandDiver]

Absolutely, and absolutely.

Unfortunately it seems to me the agencies are mostly worried about profits, and not the Instructors liability, student safety or making better/safer divers. So in the end you're looking out for your own butt as an Instructor OR a student diver. If they (Agency) did, they would have sorted crap like this out longer before I ever took my first breath on scuba.

Since the student in all likelyhood does not have that side sorted out yet, the poop falls totally on the Instructor, like it or not.

Sounds like a good gig doesn't it?

People want fast and cheap service. Some end up paying for it with their lives.

I have some complaints about my instructor in the way he handled the AOW class, but his basic OW class was much better/more difficult than most. Even though PADI no longer requires buddy breathing in its course, we spent a lot of time swimming laps around a pool while buddy breathing with the donor having their mask off. He also made us trade gear underwater and handed out fin pivots like a marine drill instructor handing out push ups and the fin appreciation exercise was comical. The OW check out dives were actually easier than some of his drill sessions.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

well i agree with that pilot fish OW and AOW is not wise. I'm at 35 dives now and think it would be crap if someone told me i wasn't ready for Advanced. In fact i'm going for Cave next and rescue soon. It also helps that my instructor knows what i'm like in the water as we have dived many times.

If I told you, sight unseen, that you're not ready for Cave, would you believe me? Or would I be full of crapola?

 

[ClevelandDiver]

If I told you, sight unseen, that you're not ready for Cave, would you believe me? Or would I be full of crapola?

Steve,

You beat me to the punch. Cave diving is the pinacle of diving. Any instructor willing to take a student with 35 dives is doing them a HUGE disservice.

I dive almost every weekend in cold dark water with limited visibility. I have dove with tech divers and commerical sat divers who have complimented me on my diving.

At around 130 dives, I know that I have a long way to go before i am ready for cave diving. Rescue diver, advance nitrox and decompression, extended range air, trimix, wreck penetration and then maybe cave diving.

 

[octgal]

If I told you, sight unseen, that you're not ready for Cave, would you believe me? Or would I be full of crapola?

I would ask you, how are you coming to this conclusion, are you a cave instructor? All you know is a number. By the way scuba steve i believe we belong to the same dive school