Spiegel Grove??

[Jim Lapenta]

Just reread this thread again. Last time I read it some things just did not jump out. Probably on second shift and 1 or 2 in the AM. Regardless I did not post then but after reading this today I've got to ask why you were doing the grove with so little experience. Even if it was your aow what were you told in the classroom about handling the situation? Did they ask to see your logbook? Did you tell them that you only had 20 some dives in 6 yrs? And since when is a DM your personal babysitter unless you pay him extra to be? Also this latest post regarding the status of the other people on the boat really gets my dander up. There was a similar situation/thread awhile back about whether a DM,AI,Instructor who is on a boat but on vacation is liable for any accidents. The answer to me as to why the DM did not tell everybody to stay with him in a group is because if two of the people were instructors and another was a dm on vacation is that they must have indicated in some way that was satisfactory to him that they were perfectly capable of handling themselves. They therefore had no need to stay with him and certainly no need to watch you. Also what the h**l were you doing at 105 in hawaii without your advanced or deep cert with so little experience. Did you perhaps tell the DM that you were at 105 on air and so intimated that you had deep experience? Maybe he felt that you were more experienced than you really were and therefore did not need to be watched as closely. That this was a formality for you. Something about this whole incident stinks and just convinces me as a DM candidate that when it comes time I'll check logs and question people closer if I have any doubts about their experience. Maybe go over some basic knowledge too if I don't know them. And if it turns out that someone is planning to go deep with me and they are of the same experience level as you were that they better find another op or I'm going to be on them like glue when we hit the water. Get some more experience and be honest with the shop/Instructor/DM/operator and this type of incident won't happen again. JEESH! 24 dives in 6 yrs,105 without proper instruction a month before which the DM may have mistakenly taken as deep experience,the grove for aow wreck/deep dive, prone to panic as indicated by ljINfla, and chewing a nicotine suppository before the dive, can you say ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN!!!!?

 

[scubak]

Here! Here!!!
K

 

[pilot fish]

When I was just OW and dove the Grove I had to show my log, Ocean Divers, good outfit,which was looked at closely and I had to show I was current with more than 3 dives below 80 ft before theey would take me out. To allow a diver that is so inexperienced, and not current, to dive the Grove, let alone go for cert, seems foolish.

 

[DandyDon]

Okay, Casemanager has not been on since late last night, so I suggest we allow time for him to come on and address the posts. But this is very interesting...

What about the fact that you have a history of panic? Why not tell them about the other prescription medications (yes multiple!) you were taking for this?

On the surface, this sounds like someone who needs to not go to depth - in addition to being an out of practice vacation diver. Was DAN consulted about the meds and history before the dive...?

Looking forward to more on this....??

 

[RonFrank]

When I was just OW and dove the Grove I had to show my log, Ocean Divers, good outfit,which was looked at closely and I had to show I was current with more than 3 dives below 80 ft before theey would take me out. To allow a diver that is so inexperienced, and not current, to dive the Grove, let alone go for cert, seems foolish.

Actually sounds like a whole gaggle of DM's and instructors

Diving the Grove with the absence of Currents is not that difficult of dive assuming one is not doing penatration more than swim throughs...

I'm interested in hearing more on all this.

 

[LJinFLA]

Current was 0. Viz was 30+ ft. He never penetrated, just looked into cutouts. I heard lots of Tank Banging. When I looked his buddy was there. I saw them both hanging on a cutout on the port side. They were three decks above me. All looked OK to me so I went on. His buddy thought he was OK after a bit. Buddy began to lead then turned around and casemanager was gone. Buddy looked for two to three minutes (too long) and then surfaced. Unfortunately he surfaced on the rope thinking that was the right thing to do on a wreck like this. Buddy did safety stop and Casemanager was already on the boat by the time he got there. Buddy should probably have gone right up after one minute without the rope since there was no current, but he took what I think is the safer approach.

LJ

 

[ClevelandDiver]

I don't understand why the SG shouldn't be used for advanced dive certification. Isn't the advanced dive cert for advanced diving? You can't do an advanced dive on Molassas reef.

I did my advanced on the SG, and I'm still alive (and had a great dive too).

I agree. My advanced certification dives included 2 on the John Bolander in Lake Erie. 1st dive was to the hull at 100 feet (wreck is on its side). Second was over the side to the bottom at 125 feet (found a weight belt with 30lbs on it!). The water was 40F degrees and I was wearing a wetsuit. It was an advanced dive and I would have felt cheated if I got my advance certification without proving myself in challenging conditions. I also had around 50 dives in the 6 months prior to the AOW dives.

3 months later I dove the Grove in a 3mil shorty with water temp around 68F. It was a picnic compared to my check out dives.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Given that most AOW students have about a dozen dives or less, it's a bad idea, and the Boland is not a place for these students either, IMO.

 

[ClevelandDiver]

Given that most AOW students have about a dozen dives or less, it's a bad idea, and the Boland is not a place for these students either, IMO.

I agree that you shouldn't dive the Boland with 12 dives. I disagree with allowing someone to take an AOW class with 12 dives. But that is a whole other debate.

I also understand that it is a problem created by the certifying agencies, not the instructors. But I think an instructor could at least suggest that someone get a few more dives before doing their advance certification.

BTW...... The Boland was an excellent sales tool for my drysuit purchase.

 

[genenaples]

From Nicorettes Web Site:

Nicorette can increase your heart rate
and can increase blood pressure.
stomach ulcer or diabetes
ASK A DOCTOR OR PHARMACIST BEFORE USE IF YOU ARE
using a non-nicotine stop smoking drug
taking prescription medicine for depression or asthma. you may get symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, dizziness, diarrhea, weakness and rapid heartbeat.

People should really be very carefull about what they put in their body before diving. Some medications for depression are used for Panic Attic patients, this could be a contra indication of the use of the gum and these medicines. Vertigo was reported by casemanager, in addition to the supposed other medicine for panic attics qouted by IJINFLA, case manager had the patch on as well (motion sickness)
casemanager: "I had taken the patch for motion and wonder if that played a role in me experiencing vertigo big time"