snowballs in ... well, you know ...

[detroit diver]

Well, I wasn't in your class, but if it were anything like mine, there was a mountain of information and skills to be accomplished in a short 2 1/2 days.

What were your expectations that weren't met? Not enough time to practice? Not enough class time? Too much info in too little time? I ask only because there is so much info to digest in such a short period of time, that for some it can be overwhelming.

I hesitate to say in here ... out of concern that my comments may not be taken appropriately by some. But I'll poke my head out of the hole a bit and see if it gets whacked off ...

Overall, it was a good class ... but it fell far short of my expectations. Brandon is a good instructor, and he worked us hard. But we always seemed to be three steps behind. We rushed through some things, and I'm fairly certain some things got left out altogether.

Now, mind you, my biggest disappointment was in my own failings. I made a mistake by taking the class in a rig I'd never dived before ... and never did feel right in. Frankly, my own performance sucked ... even beyond the problems I had with the rig. I've come to consider myself a decent diver, but you wouldn't know it by looking at the video ... and the video always tells the truth. It was ugly.

Team diving with two other people you've never met before has its own downsides ... and as the week-end progressed, so did my frustration level. By the last dive, I was swearing into my regulator ... and all I wanted was for the class to, mercifully, come to an end.

Beyond that, I'll leave my comments off this board till I've had a chance for a little 1-on-1 with Brandon. Our schedule didn't permit an evaluation before he headed off to the airport, and I don't think it's appropriate to dissect the class in detail here before we've had a chance to talk about it.

I will take this class again ... perhaps the most important thing I learned is that I am in no way as skilled at certain things as I thought I was, and if I'm going to teach people to dive properly I'll need to work harder at developing my own skills. I do believe there's a lot of value in this class, and would happily take it again with Brandon ... I felt very comfortable with his teaching style and knowledge. I'll just go better prepared next time ... and set more realistic expectations going in ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[OE2X]

Well, c'mon guys. How was the class???

Since you asked:
1. Expectations for myself: My levels for my performance were low. I knew that I sucked long before taking the class. The class only reinforced that but not because I was cut down by Brandon or Josh. Video doesn't lie!

2. Expectations of the class: Were very high. I was interested to see how different GUE's approach is to PADI (my other certs.) I was very, very impressed. Even in DIR-F the bar is raised far above the recreational level. My expectations were exceeded here!!!

3. Class work: Easily understood and presented in a very logical fashion. It was also very thorough particularly seeing it from a Rec. diver perspective. The only comment is that there seemed like a lot of ground to cover in just two evenings. No fault of Brandons though. My inclination would be three classroom nights and three days of diving to get through everything fully. Again, I don't fault Brandon.

4. Dives: Conducted in a very logical and safe manner. A part of me would like to have seen more video taping of me doing skills, but frankly, everytime I came up on the screen, I wanted to run out the door and hide.

5. I thought that Brandon was an excellent instructor. I wish that his flight hadn't been so soon, but he has normal responsibilities like the rest of us. As to the way that he teaches, I thought he was excellent and very adept. He has excellent communication skills and conveyed his knowledge in a very clear fashion. I did not hear him condemn or patronize any of the students. He made a positive comment about my performance that I told him was being charitable, but that was me being my own worst critic. Overall very high marks and praise for him as a teacher.

Conclusion: I thought it was a great class and something that every recreational diver should do! I am very impressed with the DIR technique. It is without a doubt (from my limited perspective) the best and safest way to dive and to learn how to dive. Since I've never dove this way it was all new to me. While my own performance expectations were low, it did trash my ego. Seeing how poorly you do something is a bitter pill at best. The positive side to this, is that it will make me a much better diver IF I practice these new skills.
I also learned that getting the gear is the easiest part of DIR. Proficiency of the skills is much harder and ultimately more fun. Just having the gear doesn't make you DIR. It is far more complex than that. Yes I got a lot out of this course even though I didn't come close to passing it. Perhaps with training hard, I might be able to pass it next time around.

Just a DIR wannabee...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

LOL ... nice to meet ya OE2X ... DIR wannabe ... you and me both, bro ...

To respond to Detroit Diver ...

What were your expectations that weren't met? Not enough time to practice? Not enough class time? Too much info in too little time? I ask only because there is so much info to digest in such a short period of time, that for some it can be overwhelming.

I guess I could best answer that by saying my expectations were based to a large degree on the overwhelmingly positive reviews I keep reading about the course. That's a two-edged sword ... because it builds an expectation that's a bit unrealistic and hard to live up to in a week-end.

Not enough time to practice ... certainly. Too much info in too little time ... for sure. These are two biggies. After watching the video, you really want to come back the next day and take another crack at the things you were deficient on, while that stuff is fresh in your mind. Not gonna happen though ... there's just too much stuff to cover on Sunday to go back and practice the things you screwed up on Saturday.

There's an awful lot of info in the lectures ... but the real meat and potatoes are the Four Pillars. And getting that stuff Saturday evening is just overload ... I'd rather get an early start on Sunday and have it presented when my brain isn't trying to shut down from fatigue. Most of the other class work is stuff I already knew, either from my association with DIR divers or by the hours I spend cyber-diving here and elsewhere. Lots of it is just common sense ... stuff you can just about figure out on your own if you dive enough.

The material was good, and well-presented ... I'd like it more if it were spread out over a longer period ... like maybe making Sunday as long and intensive a day as Saturday ... and giving more time for in-depth discussion.

I'd like to be able to go out and do another dive ... to work on the skills after watching the videos.

I'd like to have more emphasis on the function of the team ... this is where I think the class is the weakest. Most of our skills were done as a team, but often the team members (including myself) were confused or hesitant in terms of what we were supposed to be doing. Again, this is no reflection on the instruction, but it touches instead on unrealistic expectations ... because no team can ever become proficient during a week-end no matter how good the instructor may be. It just takes practice. And GUE's approach is sufficiently different than what most of us have learned that there's a considerable paradigm shift involved. You need time to assimilate that team concept in order to do it effectively.

And specifically, I went into the class with one goal ... I wanted to learn to consistently do a reverse kick. Been trying it for a long time now, and sometimes I get it, but more often not. This class it was the latter. After watching the video I wanted more than anything to just get out and practice ... try it again. I felt like I needed to reinforce the image in my mind (from having seen the video) with some practice. But no time for that ... and I think that detracts from the potential benefit of the class. So my one goal wasn't met ... it was a "do or die" situation, and I died.

Overall, with this much curriculum, I think this class should be three full days ... with dives, lecture, and video on each of those days.

Would I pay more for that? Heck yeah, I would.

In the absense of an extended curriculum, I'll settle for nursing my ego, working on my deficiencies, and taking it again.



... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[detroit diver]

Bob,

I think you make a few good points-and most of them-unfortunately- have to do somewhat with class length. I certainly won't speak for the DIR instructors, but I think there is a trade-off going on here. They are truly trying (IMO) to give their students the best and most information (book and skill) that they can within the time frame that they have. As someone said, these instructors have outside lives also and need to get back to their jobs and families. Not an excuse, just reality.

I think that for you and your classmates, you have a very strong support base of DIR in your area. From UP, to the folks at 5th D ( and many others around you), there are those that can help take what you've learned from the class and help you perfect it. I took the DIR-F class quite a while ago-and I'm still working on the back kick myself!!

Dive safe.

LOL ... nice to meet ya OE2X ... DIR wannabe ... you and me both, bro ...

To respond to Detroit Diver ...



I guess I could best answer that by saying my expectations were based to a large degree on the overwhelmingly positive reviews I keep reading about the course. That's a two-edged sword ... because it builds an expectation that's a bit unrealistic and hard to live up to in a week-end.

Not enough time to practice ... certainly. Too much info in too little time ... for sure. These are two biggies. After watching the video, you really want to come back the next day and take another crack at the things you were deficient on, while that stuff is fresh in your mind. Not gonna happen though ... there's just too much stuff to cover on Sunday to go back and practice the things you screwed up on Saturday.

There's an awful lot of info in the lectures ... but the real meat and potatoes are the Four Pillars. And getting that stuff Saturday evening is just overload ... I'd rather get an early start on Sunday and have it presented when my brain isn't trying to shut down from fatigue. Most of the other class work is stuff I already knew, either from my association with DIR divers or by the hours I spend cyber-diving here and elsewhere. Lots of it is just common sense ... stuff you can just about figure out on your own if you dive enough.

The mat

erial was good, and well-presented ... I'd like it more if it were spread out over a longer period ... like maybe making Sunday as long and intensive a day as Saturday ... and giving more time for in-depth discussion.

I'd like to be able to go out and do another dive ... to work on the skills after watching the videos.

I'd like to have more emphasis on the function of the team ... this is where I think the class is the weakest. Most of our skills were done as a team, but often the team members (including myself) were confused or hesitant in terms of what we were supposed to be doing. Again, this is no reflection on the instruction, but it touches instead on unrealistic expectations ... because no team can ever become proficient during a week-end no matter how good the instructor may be. It just takes practice. And GUE's approach is sufficiently different than what most of us have learned that there's a considerable paradigm shift involved. You need time to assimilate that team concept in order to do it effectively.

And specifically, I went into the class with one goal ... I wanted to learn to consistently do a reverse kick. Been trying it for a long time now, and sometimes I get it, but more often not. This class it was the latter. After watching the video I wanted more than anything to just get out and practice ... try it again. I felt like I needed to reinforce the image in my mind (from having seen the video) with some practice. But no time for that ... and I think that detracts from the potential benefit of the class. So my one goal wasn't met ... it was a "do or die" situation, and I died.

Overall, with this much curriculum, I think this class should be three full days ... with dives, lecture, and video on each of those days.

Would I pay more for that? Heck yeah, I would.

In the absense of an extended curriculum, I'll settle for nursing my ego, working on my deficiencies, and taking it again.



... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[detroit diver]

OE-

That video camera is something else, isn't it!??!! It's amazing how much it teaches you. I remember that I thought I was doing the skills really well-until I saw myself on tape-yuck! What a letdown.

It sounds like you got a lot out of the class.

Dive safe.

Since you asked:
1. Expectations for myself: My levels for my performance were low. I knew that I sucked long before taking the class. The class only reinforced that but not because I was cut down by Brandon or Josh. Video doesn't lie!

2. Expectations of the class: Were very high. I was interested to see how different GUE's approach is to PADI (my other certs.) I was very, very impressed. Even in DIR-F the bar is raised far above the recreational level. My expectations were exceeded here!!!

3. Class work: Easily understood and presented in a very logical fashion. It was also very thorough particularly seeing it from a Rec. diver perspective. The only comment is that there seemed like a lot of ground to cover in just two evenings. No fault of Brandons though. My inclination would be three classroom nights and three days of diving to get through everything fully. Again, I don't fault Brandon.

4. Dives: Conducted in a very logical and safe manner. A part of me would like to have seen more video taping of me doing skills, but frankly, everytime I came up on the screen, I wanted to run out the door and hide.

5. I thought that Brandon was an excellent instructor. I wish that his flight hadn't been so soon, but he has normal responsibilities like the rest of us. As to the way that he teaches, I thought he was excellent and very adept. He has excellent communication skills and conveyed his knowledge in a very clear fashion. I did not hear him condemn or patronize any of the students. He made a positive comment about my performance that I told him was being charitable, but that was me being my own worst critic. Overall very high marks and praise for him as a teacher.

Conclusion: I thought it was a great class and something that every recreational diver should do! I am very impressed with the DIR technique. It is without a doubt (from my limited perspective) the best and safest way to dive and to learn how to dive. Since I've never dove this way it was all new to me. While my own performance expectations were low, it did trash my ego. Seeing how poorly you do something is a bitter pill at best. The positive side to this, is that it will make me a much better diver IF I practice these new skills.
I also learned that getting the gear is the easiest part of DIR. Proficiency of the skills is much harder and ultimately more fun. Just having the gear doesn't make you DIR. It is far more complex than that. Yes I got a lot out of this course even though I didn't come close to passing it. Perhaps with training hard, I might be able to pass it next time around.

Just a DIR wannabee...

 

[reubencahn]

Bob,

I think you make a few good points-and most of them-unfortunately- have to do somewhat with class length. I certainly won't speak for the DIR instructors, but I think there is a trade-off going on here. They are truly trying (IMO) to give their students the best and most information (book and skill) that they can within the time frame that they have. As someone said, these instructors have outside lives also and need to get back to their jobs and families. Not an excuse, just reality.

I think that for you and your classmates, you have a very strong support base of DIR in your area. From UP, to the folks at 5th D ( and many others around you), there are those that can help take what you've learned from the class and help you perfect it. I took the DIR-F class quite a while ago-and I'm still working on the back kick myself!!

Dive safe.

There really is a lot to absorb in a very short period of time. The fundamentals class I took was scheduled for a weekend when a big storm came up. So our instructor gave us a choice on scheduling. We did classroom and gear setup work Friday afternoon until late night then came back early Saturday for swim tests followed by pool work followed by more classroom work until about 8 or 9 at night. We then had a two week break until the ocean dives and video review. Over the two weeks the three of us got together and did a couple of training dives. This really helped and made a huge difference in what I got out of the class. Even so, I feel like I'm still trying to integrate what I was taught into my diving. And of course, my back kick still s***s.

 

[Reinoud]

LOL ... nice to meet ya OE2X ... DIR wannabe ... you and me both, bro ...

To respond to Detroit Diver ...



I guess I could best answer that by saying my expectations were based to a large degree on the overwhelmingly positive reviews I keep reading about the course. That's a two-edged sword ... because it builds an expectation that's a bit unrealistic and hard to live up to in a week-end.

Not enough time to practice ... certainly. Too much info in too little time ... for sure.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

To me the most important thing learned was: focus. I know where I am and that I need to learn a lot more before even considering taking another GUE course. Since my Fundamentals I did not do much special training dives, but I know what to look for in every dive. I do a little back kicks every dive. I watch my trim, do a valve check. And overall me and my buddies see that there is improvement.
I do not think a 7 day DIR-F would be enough to really master all the techniques. But a 3 day course does give you an idea where you are and what your direction should be.
It did for me at least ";-)

Reinoud

 

[jagfish]

NW
In retrospect, what physical/mental preparation if any do you wish you would have undertaken before the course?

JAG

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

NW
In retrospect, what physical/mental preparation if any do you wish you would have undertaken before the course?

JAG

Sleep deprivation therapy ... the schedule is tough on us older folks ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Uncle Pug]

Euwp@5pm