Sexism?

[diving4ever]

Is there sexism in diving? Diving is an activity undertaken by individuals...most of whom live in a world rife with gender inequality. That inequality permeates every aspect of life, likely including diving .

In addition to posing the question: is there Sexism in diving? (and how do we all feel about that?), consider asking more detailed questions that illuminate how people experience gender when diving.

1) Do you experience anything as a woman diver that you think you would not experience if you were male?

• Me: 1) trouble finding larger sized dive gear designed for women or people of my height, 2) assumptions that I am a less experienced diver than men in my dive group (before we've even entered the water) 3) the assumption that I dive because my male partner dives, 4) comments about my appearance

2) Do you believe there are certain qualities that exist more (or less) in divers of a particular gender?

• Me: Not really Wait, if I'm honest I guess I believe men are more likely to engage in risky dive behaviour (on average). Might be my bias though.

3) Have you ever been uncomfortable in a dive environment because of your gender?

• Yes: While I have never been harrased on a dive boat, I've seem DMs and other divers pay unwanted attention to solo women divers (and yes, it was unwanted). I've also seen men override women's decisions as a buddy and minimize thier concerns or dive preferences.

 

[tomfcrist]

. (and the one who didn't would be the autistic slobbering puzzle addicted blind girl who only showers once a week)

Are you ****ing kidding me? If you had said this in my physical presence I would have knocked the **** out of you. This one blurb in your post says VOLUMES about your character.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Are you ****ing kidding me? If you had said this in my physical presence I would have knocked the **** out of you. This one blurb in your post says VOLUMES about your character.

Lighten up, Francis.

 

[Diver0001]

Bet you wouldn't.

Certainly says something about me but probably not what you assume it does.

R..

 

[TSandM]

Hmm. Interesting thread so far.

I will start by saying I am a small, older woman, who has spent most of her life in a man's world. I majored in math, went to med school, did a surgical residency -- so I have lived in environments where women were rare, and where we were not particularly welcome, and especially when we outcompeted the men.

I think it takes two to be sexist. First, you have to have the man with the attitude, and then you have to have the woman with the chip on her shoulder. I have never carried that chip, and it takes fairly egregious behavior to register as sexist to me. Even then, I mostly find it amusing. I'll tell a couple of stories:

Several years ago, three other women and I did a cave diving trip to MX together. We were at a dive site where a man who appeared and sounded like a Mexican was clearly guiding a single client. He watched us unload the gear from the car, and begin to assemble it, and he came over and asked us, "Are you going to dive?". And although, since we had vehicles full of tanks, equipment and suits, we found the question odd, we told him yes, we were going to dive.

Next question: "In the cave?". Again, yes.

His face became somewhat distressed, and he asked, "By YOURSELVES?". Well, believe it or not, that's exactly what we intended. He was clearly worried about us, but I didn't mind, because he carried my tanks for me, a task I will cheerfully delegate to anyone else who wants to do it.

Several years later, I was diving with a fellow who joined up with me and Peter in MX, and I was telling this story, and he said, "Oh, that was YOU guys? I remember seeing four women diving together at Grand Cenote, and thought that was really strange.". Would someone remember a group of four men?

Now, there was no malice and no denigration or anything else involved here. There was simple amazement, but it was gender-dependent. Neither man would have found anything noteworthy about a group of men, or probably even a mixed group. It was just weird to see women doing this by themselves. They didn't disapprove or anything, they just didn't expect it. And until there are more of us, it will probably stay that way.

In all the diving I have done, and all the training I have done, I have only run into one man who clearly didn't approve of women in technical diving. He was an instructor, and had I known his opinions, I would have avoided him.

Otherwise, I would have to say that my general experience in diving is completely gender-neutral, with the exception of gear. My dive buddies don't care which chromosomes I carry, so long as I carry my own weight in the water (and nobody minds helping me with the heavy stuff on land).

I, however, will confess to a little sexism of my own. I actually really enjoyed our women's cave diving trip. There is a slightly different ambiance within a group of women, and I suspect I do feel a little need to "man up" in a mixed group that I don't when it's just the girls.

 

[Redshift]

Maybe more clear-cut examples would be things like divers nit wanting to dive with a woman insta-buddy or not respecting the women DMs or instructors? But I have never witnessed things like that.

 

[tomfcrist]

Lighten up, Francis.

Not going to ****ing happen.

Bet you wouldn't.

Certainly says something about me but probably not what you assume it does.

R..

This seems to be a running theme with you in this thread.... You obviously don't know me.

There is nothing NOT offensive about that blurb, but since we were commenting on perspective...let me give you mine. My daughter is autistic...and you just insulted every autistic person on the planet.

Being a senior moderator I would think you would have a little more class than that, but I guess that would be a far reaching assumption. You have forever lost any bit of respect I could ever give you.

 

[Diver0001]

Not going to ****ing happen.



This seems to be a running theme with you in this thread.... You obviously don't know me.

There is nothing NOT offensive about that blurb, but since we were commenting on perspective...let me give you mine. My daughter is autistic...and you just insulted every autistic person on the planet.

Being a senior moderator I would think you would have a little more class than that, but I guess that would be a far reaching assumption. You have forever lost any bit of respect I could ever give you.

Ah. I knew it struck a sensitive spot but I wasn't sure why. Yeah, you're right. That wasn't very politically correct. It was intended to sketch a cynical mental image and had more to do with my own self-image than it did with insulting your (or anyone else's) loved one.

If you would like to discuss this further with me I'm happy to do it via PM's. I think derailing Jill's thread for this side bar wouldn't be fair to her.

R..

 

[drbill]

Certainly sexism is present not only in diving but in society as a whole. Although I dive solo 95% of the time, most of my dive buddies are female and several of them are better divers than I am (after 52 years on SCUBA, I'm still learning... and forgetting... and relearning). Each of the women I dive with is a competent diver and fully capable of handling their own gear.

Where I get a little "sexist" is in looking at the qualities I think are more likely to be found in a woman buddy: better air consumption, slower dive pace, greater understanding of relationships (ecological as well as human) and less tendency to go darting off in another direction. These are gender-based generalizations, but I often find they are based on fact.

 

[Diver0001]

Certainly sexism is present not only in diving but in society as a whole. Although I dive solo 95% of the time, most of my dive buddies are female and several of them are better divers than I am (after 52 years on SCUBA, I'm still learning... and forgetting... and relearning).

Bill, after 52 years, you're mostly just "forgetting", mate.

Each of the women I dive with is a competent diver and fully capable of handling their own gear.

Lucky for them......


I read something on facebook today that said (I think) "friends don't tell you want you want to hear, they tell you what you need to hear".

I hope we're still friends

R..