Sexism?
- Thread starter Jill Heinerth
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As others have pointed out, defining "sexism" is not an easy task. Now I think it is obvious that most of the planet follows a patriarchal system so to wonder IF males are generally considered above females is an exercise in futility. Yes things are changing, there has been progress, but there is a long way to go. Of course there's always exceptions, but I am not exceptional, just a garden variety bitter old fart that never follow the "how to become a lady" program.
As an old woman scares me to see that things I thought were over when I was in my early 20s are coming back, and need to be fight for again.
But as mentioned above also, sexism is part of life as a whole, the part that spills into diving is what we are covering in this thread right?
I don't think there's a lot of "in your face" sexism in the recreational side of diving, female money can be just as green as any, so it is more of a subtle ways that spills over , I wonder if a woman can waltz in the tech side or requires her to elbow her way in.
I see when dive gear is advertised there's sexism like in any advertising. Yes both genders in ads are young and attractive; but the males are muscular and "rogued" while the females tend to be petite with big tits; unless the advert is specifically for wet suits, all female models wear sexy bikinis. I'm not arguing the effectiveness of the ads, just describing what sells, male - big & powerful female - small & the more flesh the better.
Movies? if there's diving involved, most of the time the male will have a full suit and the female is diving in swimsuit.... which by the way is a contradiction to have the female requiring less thermal protection, but I know logic is not invited to that party.
A sample of what I have experienced personally in the last few decades that I doubt would have happened if I was a man.
Walked into a dive shop to borrow or pay for the use of an Allen tool, to remove the dummy plug on a low pressure port of my 1st stage to add a hose. The Neanderthal behind the counter (my apologies to all the Neanderthals) told me :
"Sugar, you can't just add hoses to that, you need to buy one that comes with hoses already"
I ripped my 1st stage of his hands and walked away from the store. I've been told this guy was just trying to sell and would've said the same to a man... I have a hard time believing that.
More than once I've been with a male friend or coworker and walk into a dive shop, I go to the counter to buy something and they salesperson ignores while offers assistance to the male with me, even if he is obviously just looking. If what I need can wait, I walk away, either way I make a point to skip that shop in the future. Again I've been told that dive shop attendants just want to sell and may not be aware of the non-verbal queues of a buyer vs. a looker, hmmmmm maybe, either way I rather patronize the attendants that are a little brighter.
While my diving was exclusively from day charters, I developed a system. All the stuff was always in my car stored the same way. All gear in a backpack on top over the 2 steel tanks. Backpack on, then a tank on each hand and everything was balanced perfect for me to walk to any boat. So many times I would be unloading my car or walking to the boat, next to other divers going to the same boat, and many times I would get several offers to help, my replies were always the same "no thanks".
Offers to help covered the whole spectrum from the no kidding "do you need a hand?" to the obnoxiously condescending "let me take care of that for you darling" while actually trying to get the tanks off my hands.
Once again I get the BS of, this is the south they were raised to be respectful. That's cool I was raised to be treated like a capable human being, if you want to, go ahead open the door for me but STFU with the condescending attitude.
I agree with that statement, but I read somewhere, that equality will be obvious when a mediocre person from that "ism" (a mediocre women in this case) gets to be a normal occurrence in certain field. Think about it, when it comes to be the exception one has to be twice as good in order to "make" it. There's a lot of mediocre male commercial divers, the few women in that field have to keep proving themselves over and over. And if one fails is a fail for ALL women, not the same for men, if one fails, HE didn't cut it.
Sometimes is not just ONE man and that chip gets pounded in your shoulder so deep is not easy to pretend is not there.
We all have a couple of stories (unfortunately)
In my teens and early 20's I knew it all, so after high school instead of going to college I married a person my parents didn't like. After 2 kids it was time to get a job. Looking at my lack of qualifications I thought I could make a career of Land Surveying. There was plenty of work for the starting position on a crew, requirements at the time were easy: reading -writing-and lifting 40 or 50 pounds. I figure with my math abilities I could climb up the ladder easily (2 to 3 positions depending on the crew), become crew chief in a couple of years. Right... that's what I thought, I literally got the up and down look from the first 3 companies I try to apply. One of them didn't even give me the application to fill. Finally I got hired but only because they were desperately to get a warm body. WTF I know today that a trained monkey can fill that position but a woman won't qualify? I did climbed up to crew chief, but not until proving that I was twice as productive as any of the crew chiefs they had, all the while making sure I don't disrupt the "male atmosphere", never mind the BS every time I get a new assistant in the crew that needs to "get used to" work for a female.
After seeing that every where I went as a land surveyor resulted in removal of beautiful areas to be covered by concrete, asphalt or a combination of both, I started with bridges and culverts. Managed to become a bridge inspector, no destruction there, this structures are actually quite amazing, but then again females are not welcome. I don't know how few women are in the medical field, I never met another female bridge inspector, I knew of their existence in other states but I was the proverbial token. Never mind going for training, in-land inspection is in the pussy-section of commercial diving you'd think I could fit in for once.... oh no. It was bad enough to have THE GUYS from the oil rigs look down to commercial divers that work in-land, if they start accepting women that would be the end.
I was lucky to survive all my training, and find one or two males in positions of power that care more about results and profits than the gender of the grunt doing the work.
When the pounding of the chip on my shoulder got old, I figured if I become an Engineer the BS about being a woman at work will end.... I guess I'm funny that way.
I became an electrical engineer, the Navy hired me even before completing the degree. Now I run UUV's for them and still today I encounter gender BS.
so yes I guess my shoulders are pretty well covered with many chips, but I doubt it is just perceived, still today my mother regrets I will retire without ever doing a "woman's job" whatever that means.
As an old woman scares me to see that things I thought were over when I was in my early 20s are coming back, and need to be fight for again.
But as mentioned above also, sexism is part of life as a whole, the part that spills into diving is what we are covering in this thread right?
I don't think there's a lot of "in your face" sexism in the recreational side of diving, female money can be just as green as any, so it is more of a subtle ways that spills over , I wonder if a woman can waltz in the tech side or requires her to elbow her way in.
I see when dive gear is advertised there's sexism like in any advertising. Yes both genders in ads are young and attractive; but the males are muscular and "rogued" while the females tend to be petite with big tits; unless the advert is specifically for wet suits, all female models wear sexy bikinis. I'm not arguing the effectiveness of the ads, just describing what sells, male - big & powerful female - small & the more flesh the better.
Movies? if there's diving involved, most of the time the male will have a full suit and the female is diving in swimsuit.... which by the way is a contradiction to have the female requiring less thermal protection, but I know logic is not invited to that party.
A sample of what I have experienced personally in the last few decades that I doubt would have happened if I was a man.
Walked into a dive shop to borrow or pay for the use of an Allen tool, to remove the dummy plug on a low pressure port of my 1st stage to add a hose. The Neanderthal behind the counter (my apologies to all the Neanderthals) told me :
"Sugar, you can't just add hoses to that, you need to buy one that comes with hoses already"
I ripped my 1st stage of his hands and walked away from the store. I've been told this guy was just trying to sell and would've said the same to a man... I have a hard time believing that.
More than once I've been with a male friend or coworker and walk into a dive shop, I go to the counter to buy something and they salesperson ignores while offers assistance to the male with me, even if he is obviously just looking. If what I need can wait, I walk away, either way I make a point to skip that shop in the future. Again I've been told that dive shop attendants just want to sell and may not be aware of the non-verbal queues of a buyer vs. a looker, hmmmmm maybe, either way I rather patronize the attendants that are a little brighter.
While my diving was exclusively from day charters, I developed a system. All the stuff was always in my car stored the same way. All gear in a backpack on top over the 2 steel tanks. Backpack on, then a tank on each hand and everything was balanced perfect for me to walk to any boat. So many times I would be unloading my car or walking to the boat, next to other divers going to the same boat, and many times I would get several offers to help, my replies were always the same "no thanks".
Offers to help covered the whole spectrum from the no kidding "do you need a hand?" to the obnoxiously condescending "let me take care of that for you darling" while actually trying to get the tanks off my hands.
Once again I get the BS of, this is the south they were raised to be respectful. That's cool I was raised to be treated like a capable human being, if you want to, go ahead open the door for me but STFU with the condescending attitude.
I agree with that statement, but I read somewhere, that equality will be obvious when a mediocre person from that "ism" (a mediocre women in this case) gets to be a normal occurrence in certain field. Think about it, when it comes to be the exception one has to be twice as good in order to "make" it. There's a lot of mediocre male commercial divers, the few women in that field have to keep proving themselves over and over. And if one fails is a fail for ALL women, not the same for men, if one fails, HE didn't cut it.
Sometimes is not just ONE man and that chip gets pounded in your shoulder so deep is not easy to pretend is not there.
We all have a couple of stories (unfortunately)
In my teens and early 20's I knew it all, so after high school instead of going to college I married a person my parents didn't like. After 2 kids it was time to get a job. Looking at my lack of qualifications I thought I could make a career of Land Surveying. There was plenty of work for the starting position on a crew, requirements at the time were easy: reading -writing-and lifting 40 or 50 pounds. I figure with my math abilities I could climb up the ladder easily (2 to 3 positions depending on the crew), become crew chief in a couple of years. Right... that's what I thought, I literally got the up and down look from the first 3 companies I try to apply. One of them didn't even give me the application to fill. Finally I got hired but only because they were desperately to get a warm body. WTF I know today that a trained monkey can fill that position but a woman won't qualify? I did climbed up to crew chief, but not until proving that I was twice as productive as any of the crew chiefs they had, all the while making sure I don't disrupt the "male atmosphere", never mind the BS every time I get a new assistant in the crew that needs to "get used to" work for a female.
After seeing that every where I went as a land surveyor resulted in removal of beautiful areas to be covered by concrete, asphalt or a combination of both, I started with bridges and culverts. Managed to become a bridge inspector, no destruction there, this structures are actually quite amazing, but then again females are not welcome. I don't know how few women are in the medical field, I never met another female bridge inspector, I knew of their existence in other states but I was the proverbial token. Never mind going for training, in-land inspection is in the pussy-section of commercial diving you'd think I could fit in for once.... oh no. It was bad enough to have THE GUYS from the oil rigs look down to commercial divers that work in-land, if they start accepting women that would be the end.
I was lucky to survive all my training, and find one or two males in positions of power that care more about results and profits than the gender of the grunt doing the work.
When the pounding of the chip on my shoulder got old, I figured if I become an Engineer the BS about being a woman at work will end.... I guess I'm funny that way.
I became an electrical engineer, the Navy hired me even before completing the degree. Now I run UUV's for them and still today I encounter gender BS.
so yes I guess my shoulders are pretty well covered with many chips, but I doubt it is just perceived, still today my mother regrets I will retire without ever doing a "woman's job" whatever that means.
Dr. Lecter
Contributor
This particular concept amuses me greatly in the context of this thread, where the obverse is on display in rambling anecdote after rambling anecdote being extrapolated to 'How The World IS For Women'.
When many of the posters in this thread were slighted in a social hierarchy, it was per se because of their gender. A man being belittled, bossed around, or otherwise dismissed by others (men or women), however, is not viewed as having been ill-treated because he's a man - it's simply taken for granted that such is the normal course of things among socially infighting primates.
Which it is; something many ladies posting in response the OP seem to have missed -- or decided doesn't apply to them. If you want a metric of just how socially equal you are, compare your life experiences to those of a male with your same physical and intellectual capabilities...I doubt you're much worse off, even if the angle of attack is more gender-focused.
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Stoo
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Just an off-the-cuff comment... So many of the top "divers" these days seem to be women. The OP being at the top of the list (and I should disclose that Jill and I go back "a while"..) but also the likes of Emmy-winning Becky Kagan Schott and Her Deepness, Sylvia Earl just to name a very few.
There may be "sexism" out there, but if there is, it doesn't appear to be keeping certain amazing women back much...
BTW, I often carry my wife's tank and stuff. She's 100# soaking-wet. She could do it, but it's easier for me, so I do, because I like her. In exchange, she shares her extra gas with me all the time when we are south, so we can extend our dive time. It's a fair trade-off. On the other hand, a younger woman we dive with (a colleague of Mrs. Stoo's) often humps my doubles in for fills. She say she's practicing for having her own set.
Within my little diving circle, I'd say about 20% are female. They hump their own gear, they don't wine as much as the guys, and frankly, are better divers in many ways. They don't seem to be "limited" by the machismo BS that often floats around a gang of guys diving together. I'd dive with any of these ladies, anytime, anyplace. Now that I think of it, two of my three favorite buddies are women. The other one brings beer, so I put up with him, even though he's a Dufus.
Oh, and the women usually bring homemade brownies and cookies out on the boat.
And chip in for gas more readily.
There may be "sexism" out there, but if there is, it doesn't appear to be keeping certain amazing women back much...
BTW, I often carry my wife's tank and stuff. She's 100# soaking-wet. She could do it, but it's easier for me, so I do, because I like her. In exchange, she shares her extra gas with me all the time when we are south, so we can extend our dive time. It's a fair trade-off. On the other hand, a younger woman we dive with (a colleague of Mrs. Stoo's) often humps my doubles in for fills. She say she's practicing for having her own set.
Within my little diving circle, I'd say about 20% are female. They hump their own gear, they don't wine as much as the guys, and frankly, are better divers in many ways. They don't seem to be "limited" by the machismo BS that often floats around a gang of guys diving together. I'd dive with any of these ladies, anytime, anyplace. Now that I think of it, two of my three favorite buddies are women. The other one brings beer, so I put up with him, even though he's a Dufus.
Oh, and the women usually bring homemade brownies and cookies out on the boat.
And chip in for gas more readily.
Just an off-the-cuff comment... So many of the top "divers" these days seem to be women. The OP being at the top of the list (and I should disclose that Jill and I go back "a while"..) but also the likes of Emmy-winning Becky Kagan Schott and Her Deepness, Sylvia Earl just to name a very few.
There may be "sexism" out there, but if there is, it doesn't appear to be keeping certain amazing women back much...
BTW, I often carry my wife's tank and stuff. She's 100# soaking-wet. She could do it, but it's easier for me, so I do, because I like her. In exchange, she shares her extra gas with me all the time when we are south, so we can extend our dive time. It's a fair trade-off. On the other hand, a younger woman we dive with (a colleague of Mrs. Stoo's) often humps my doubles in for fills. She say she's practicing for having her own set.
Within my little diving circle, I'd say about 20% are female. They hump their own gear, they don't wine as much as the guys, and frankly, are better divers in many ways. They don't seem to be "limited" by the machismo BS that often floats around a gang of guys diving together. I'd dive with any of these ladies, anytime, anyplace. Now that I think of it, two of my three favorite buddies are women. The other one brings beer, so I put up with him, even though he's a Dufus.
Oh, and the women usually bring homemade brownies and cookies out on the boat.
And chip in for gas more readily.
Your wife sharing her excess gas with you is a good thing?
Where do you fine these women that hump gear?
I like females that don't wine as much because it leaves more wine for me.
OK, all seriousness aside, I am a sexist pig. I take care of my wife's gear, especially in the morning before a dive when she is not the happiest person on the planet. A normal dive day is for me to fetch coffee, haul the gear to the boat, check tank pressure and O2 concentration, etc., so all she has to do is get on the boat. However, after that she rechecks the pressure and O2 and takes care of her own gear until it is time to wash gear. She also changes out her own tanks between dives because if her BC height is even 1 cm off, she gets a little grumpy.
I am also more likely to help a woman if she clearly needs help and isn't a whiner. However, I will watch a guy struggle a little longer since there is more of an ego issue and reluctance to ask for help (the inverse of some of the princesses I dive with that will gladly let a guy do everything for them). It's not that I don't want to help other guys, but many are not as receptive to being helped and sometimes one needs to learn firsthand that the tank bungee goes on after the regulator.
Wingy
Contributor
I guess a lot of cultural and conditioning factors go into how many chips you end up with. I grew up with Val Taylor on TV sunday nights, my ''aunt'' next door dived with her husband and my father at Ningaloo several times a year - mum and aunt shared driving on the 1700km trip up there on gravel and I think the only reason mum did not dive was a burst eardrum. It wasnt until I was forced to go to school that I realised that not all aunts and mums were divers unless they had burst eardrums. I thought it was normal. This was late 1960s. When I was old enough to get a passport I backpacked solo round the hippy trail and some of europe. When I was broke enough to have to go home I learnt to operate excavators and bought an earth moving business, cos no one told me I couldnt. Sure every now and then some guy driving a truck I was loading would do a double take and realize a 'girl' was operating plant so I took to wearing frilly white lace socks with my steelcaps. Sure lots of people rang for quotes and asked to speak to my husband but no one failed to laugh when I would say, sure you can talk to him but I wouldnt let him near my excavators and hes probably drunk but if you need a dam dug, im your gal. No one went to another company because I was a girl to the best of my knowledge. I was doing drainage channels at 8 months pregnant when the property owner turned up and I climbed out of the excavator for him to burst out with OH! You are Pregnant! - I just looked down at my giant belly and said...."Wow! You are right, how did that happen? thanks for telling me"
Nowdays I lecture engineering - civil, mechanical, environmental and electrical. I have run program to bring more women into the engineering and construction fields and participated in a 5 year study throughout the EU to track the progress of women educated in womens only classes v women educated in mixed gender classes - results showed women in mixed gender classes had a far greater industry engagement and retention rate.
I crew on a tall ship, theres no concession of female crew members, we do everything the guys do. Our passengers sometimes make mention of their suprise at seeing a woman controlling a tall ship or hauling up sails then are generally fascinated when I tell them about the most notorious pirate in south east asian waters - a chinese widow.
If a guy offers a hand if im carrying something heavy, im going to be thankful and appreciate it. If a guy is boring everyone to tears with how much he lifts at the gym, I can simply smile and mention I can lift 45,000 tonne with one hand.
I have had people express suprise at me travelling solo to dive - in Bora Bora I got sick of the question - Madam where is your husband - answer - Mon Deiu! I had one, he must have fallen out of the plane on the way here!
I guess a lot of the chips are in the way you look at life. Not saying I dont have any but I know im far from a rarity. Here in mining women dump truck operators are often preferred due to their attention - and having kids at home is a great incentive not to have a moment daydreaming about Johnny Depp and slip off the side of the mine road into the pit.
Oh and Marine Research - you find those women who hump gear in Tulumben...dont dare offer to help them as they wander along with your tank on their head..its their job.
Women pearl divers in japan and the Haenu women divers of South Korea have been doing it for a long long time. The Jeju ladies are still diving today even in their 80s
The Mermaids of Jeju
While the Ama japanese pearl diving women have largely been replaced by farmed pearls they were the ones mainly employed in the industry in times gone by
Ama - The Pearl Diving Mermaids of Japan (Warning: Nudity) - Gakuranman
Pretty sure they lugged their gear by themselves.
Nowdays I lecture engineering - civil, mechanical, environmental and electrical. I have run program to bring more women into the engineering and construction fields and participated in a 5 year study throughout the EU to track the progress of women educated in womens only classes v women educated in mixed gender classes - results showed women in mixed gender classes had a far greater industry engagement and retention rate.
I crew on a tall ship, theres no concession of female crew members, we do everything the guys do. Our passengers sometimes make mention of their suprise at seeing a woman controlling a tall ship or hauling up sails then are generally fascinated when I tell them about the most notorious pirate in south east asian waters - a chinese widow.
If a guy offers a hand if im carrying something heavy, im going to be thankful and appreciate it. If a guy is boring everyone to tears with how much he lifts at the gym, I can simply smile and mention I can lift 45,000 tonne with one hand.
I have had people express suprise at me travelling solo to dive - in Bora Bora I got sick of the question - Madam where is your husband - answer - Mon Deiu! I had one, he must have fallen out of the plane on the way here!
I guess a lot of the chips are in the way you look at life. Not saying I dont have any but I know im far from a rarity. Here in mining women dump truck operators are often preferred due to their attention - and having kids at home is a great incentive not to have a moment daydreaming about Johnny Depp and slip off the side of the mine road into the pit.
Oh and Marine Research - you find those women who hump gear in Tulumben...dont dare offer to help them as they wander along with your tank on their head..its their job.
Women pearl divers in japan and the Haenu women divers of South Korea have been doing it for a long long time. The Jeju ladies are still diving today even in their 80s
The Mermaids of Jeju
While the Ama japanese pearl diving women have largely been replaced by farmed pearls they were the ones mainly employed in the industry in times gone by
Ama - The Pearl Diving Mermaids of Japan (Warning: Nudity) - Gakuranman
Pretty sure they lugged their gear by themselves.
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
Man boobs?
---------- Post added February 13th, 2015 at 09:37 PM ----------
I don't understand what all the hub bub's about.
As a society, men are trained to be courtious to women and do things like open doors for them, pull out a chair for them to sit down, treat them like they are special...because they are.
So now we have women in a male dominated sport (is it a sport?) and now the rules have changed. It's almost like women divers are cops, they need to somehow be able to hold their own, to be able to handle every situation by themselves (topside), which I'm sure many can. Underwater it's a different story. I could see how diving might attract the type A woman especially in tech who almost have a chip on their shoulders about some sort of mental and physical competition with men.
I DM'd with a wowan who was an Army drill sergeant (for real). She was a hell of a diver and a great swimmer, but she had this attitude that she was out to prove to the world that she could beat any man at anything. I was kind of put off by the attitude and didn't see a reason for it. I thought diving was all about having fun, helping to train students (as DM's) and seek commeraderie.
Women need to give us a break, we mean well. Old traditions are hard to break.
Throughout history there has always been this debate. We are opposite sexes, what do you expect?
If I see a woman struggling with gear I'll ask her if she want's help. If I see an old fart struggling with gear I'll ask him if he want's help.
Not all women need help, and not all old farts need help.
There are many women that can work and dive circles around men. Maybe more women need to ask men if they want help.
I'd rather be labelled an ******* who want's to help instead of an ******* that shines people on and lets them struggle.
You can always tell me no.
And no, nobody's trying to pick up on you, we just are trying to be friendly and helpfull.
You know, I've had a lot of experience in my life that were eyebrow raising and made me shrug. The surgical chief resident who told me not to consider surgery as a career, because women in surgery were always unhappy. The Plastic Surgery attending who told me he really liked it best when I wore fishnet stockings to work. The guy who gave me my first job, which was pumping gas in hot pants, and fired me when I was too stupid to realize I was supposed to sleep with him in exchange. The executive at the bank who backed me up against the file cabinets and scared the living bejeesus out of me.
Yeah, there have been those experiences. Each has left me nonplussed . . . but not sent me out into the world to LOOK for more evidence of the same attitude.
In diving, I have buddies offering to help me with my gear. I'm 5'2" and weigh about 120 pounds, and I'm 60 years old. It might be as much ageism as sexism, but whatever it is, I don't mind it a bit. So long as I don't feel the vibe that I have to prove myself, I'll let somebody else help. My very, very dear friend Ben Martinez will NEVER let me carry a set of doubles, if he can get to it first. Bless his heart; his help lets me do a week of cave diving without having to take a day off in the middle to let my sore body rest.
I can't think of anybody in diving ever insulting my intelligence (if they try, they don't do it for very long). I have had boat crew ask me if I need help with stuff, or put me in the spot closest to the ladder, and again, I don't mind at all. I have better things to get my hackles up about than somebody who wants to make my life easier, no matter what his reason is for doing so. Now, if someone suggested I not DIVE those doubles, or not DO that cave or tech dive, or that he'd rather have someone else as a buddy, that would be different. That has NEVER happened to me, not once, not anywhere.
Yeah, there have been those experiences. Each has left me nonplussed . . . but not sent me out into the world to LOOK for more evidence of the same attitude.
In diving, I have buddies offering to help me with my gear. I'm 5'2" and weigh about 120 pounds, and I'm 60 years old. It might be as much ageism as sexism, but whatever it is, I don't mind it a bit. So long as I don't feel the vibe that I have to prove myself, I'll let somebody else help. My very, very dear friend Ben Martinez will NEVER let me carry a set of doubles, if he can get to it first. Bless his heart; his help lets me do a week of cave diving without having to take a day off in the middle to let my sore body rest.
I can't think of anybody in diving ever insulting my intelligence (if they try, they don't do it for very long). I have had boat crew ask me if I need help with stuff, or put me in the spot closest to the ladder, and again, I don't mind at all. I have better things to get my hackles up about than somebody who wants to make my life easier, no matter what his reason is for doing so. Now, if someone suggested I not DIVE those doubles, or not DO that cave or tech dive, or that he'd rather have someone else as a buddy, that would be different. That has NEVER happened to me, not once, not anywhere.
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
Nor should that happen...ever.
One thing I know is, underwater all the male/female stuff goes away, we are all one in skill level and capability.
I think women in many ways actually have an edge when it comes to all the bravado that can (sometimes to some people) happen on a dive. They are more level headed, more cognitive, have a better awareness in some situations. Men have this hormone called testosterone that can really do weird things to their heads and women are the antidote.
I couldn't imagine a boat full of men and no women...how boring!
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