Seeking the DIR Answer: Must DIR Shops be Committed?

[Kevrumbo]

thanks,

I did read the list of instructors, fairly well educated group, relatively speaking.

Have I been under a rock? I thought they did not do rebreathers?

yes, that link was helpful and I see that many have assorted backgrounds. So if someone was a TDI instructor AND a GUE instructor would they just teach according to the agency standards for that class? Or do they evolve in one direction or another?

Ask Chuck Mather at Dive Tek Hawaii on the Big Island. He was my TDI Trimix Instructor who taught "DIR-compliant" Techniques & Procedures, and was considering undergoing the ITC path for Fundies Instructor, with Bob Sherwood as a mentor. . .

With so much discussion regarding "compliance" I find myself wondering what level of compliance the Halcyon retailers and DIR operators (dive shops that bring in the prestigious well known Instructors) and sell/market Fundies, are asked to have.

In other words, can I sell Halcyon, market and sell Fundies, etc and still dive non-DIR tourist divers on clearly non-DIR compliant profiles and practices?

And why don't you ask Jo Hjelm over at Island Divers Oahu too Cath? (They'll be hosting a Fundies Class on 24 Aug). Jo is currently GUE Cave 1 Certified and a TDI Instructor, and was my first Wreck Instructor who utilized, applied and taught the same overhead techniques that he himself learned in his GUE Cave Class. . .

 

[Cacia]

So, I just finished reading all the GUE standards, Kev

I guess you can't do that lost mask drill in the fish holds...just so ya know.

very interesting the standards part about awarding two cards from two agencies at the same time.
I'm still not sure I totally understand why that would happen. Maybe...does TDI have to recert as often?

Actually, I found my answer in the standards pdf file.

 

[Kevrumbo]

And btw, Hollywood Divers LDS up by Universal Studios is fast becoming one of the major Halcyon Retailers in LA/SoCal, and is the primary host for most of the GUE Fundies Classes here as well. One of the managing partners is currently on track to become a GUE Instructor, while the other two partners separately teach PADI, NAUI & TDI Recreational and Tech Classes, as well provide CCR training too.

So by this example, can a "LDS sell Halcyon, market and sell Fundies, etc and still dive non-DIR tourist divers on clearly non-DIR compliant profiles and practices?" The answer is yes. . .

 

[Kevrumbo]

<snip>Also, as wrecks become more territorial, I see this becoming an issue as I have experienced DIR divers who will say that people *like me* have no business in a certain wreck because I am not "trained." The TDI crowd, (my impression) just does their thing and doesn't SEEM to be so involved with enforcing things for others. Maybe its just my impression though...which is why I raised the question.<snip>

Doggone it Cath, are you still going into the Refrigerator Holds on the Sea Tiger Wreck on Single Tank??? That's it --instead of shipping my AL80 Doubles to the Philippines, I'm sending 'em to you (Take a class with Scuba and Dream already!)

 

[TheRedHead]

Maybe...does TDI have to recert as often?

Actually, I found my answer in the standards pdf file.

TDI doesn't recert.

5thd-x has some very good DVDs - you might want to pick up "Intro to Technical Diving" I think it is called.

 

[Bob3]

Doesn't the Halcyon joint in Ft Lauderdale have a big chunk of the store stocked with Brownies Hookahs?
(I might be dating myself, it's been a while since I've been down there)

 

[netmage]

Doesn't the Halcyon joint in Ft Lauderdale have a big chunk of the store stocked with Brownies Hookahs?
(I might be dating myself, it's been a while since I've been down there)

Hense the name of the shop... Brownie's Southport Divers

The relationships between GUE as a training agency, Halcyon as a manufacturer, and Brownie's as a few different entities is enough to make any head spin.... Tony Rue (true) put together a post, perhaps it was on TDS a while back explaining most of the nuances.

-Tim

 

[Hank49]

Are you asking in a roundabout way if you were to complete a GUE instructor path would you still be able to dive however you wanted to outside of classes?

The answer would be sorta. If you flaunted your strokery ways I imagine they'd kick you out. If you quietly took people on tours or solo dived without making a spectacle of yourself I doubt anyone would notice or care. Likewise if you chain smoked publically or discretely.

That's interesting. If you become a GUE instructor you're actually monitored and if you dive outside DIR protocols openly, you're out?
That seems a bit extreme. As long as you officially teach within the rules, what does GUE care if an instructor dives 150 feet on air on his/her own time? Or uses non DIR gear sometimes? Do they even have a legal right to revoke one's license for that?

 

[Kevrumbo]

I concur. However, if you screw-up as a GUE Instructor doing something on your own time, you are most likely to be heavily ostracized by your peers and flammed by the diving community in general (and especially by the Sith Lord GI3 himself).

 

[netmage]

That's interesting. If you become a GUE instructor you're actually monitored and if you dive outside DIR protocols openly, you're out?
That seems a bit extreme. As long as you officially teach within the rules, what does GUE care if an instructor dives 150 feet on air on his/her own time? Or uses non DIR gear sometimes? Do they even have a legal right to revoke one's license for that?

There are very few GUE instructors, look at the list... I wouldn't say they are actively 'monitored', thats so big-brother.... Becoming a GUE instructor is a fairly involved undertaking, part of the genesis of GUE was dis-satisfaction with the status-quo of some of the other training agencies and the gross variances between instructors and lack of consistency in the 'message' being taught to students.

Instructors are not issued a 'license', instructors, in good standing, are authorized to offer classes and submit their students for certification by the agency. If an instructor is no longer in good standing with the agency, for whatever reason, they will no longer be able to offer that training, or certify divers, i.e. issue that card. If I recall, after all GUE classes, students are asked to complete a QA survey, and I'd imagine if anyone had an issue, they could email the qa folks; who WILL investigate and take appropriate action if warrented.

Within the concepts taught in DIR classes, advocating deep air is the anti-thesis of DIR, for a number of reasons. Obviously in any dive related activity, a GUE instructor is expected to be setting an example of what it means to dive DIR, much like say the NFL has a code of professional conduct. (For example, its not the allegations of slaughtering dogs thats going to get Michael Vick in trouble w/ the NFL, it's the allegation of betting on them fighting...!)

-Tim