ScubaPro Update product line

[Greg Barlow]

Mares offers some metal looking plastic cases, but it's a cheap looking metal color and is, after all, still only plastic.

The durability of a plastic case absolutely sucks compared to a chrome plated brass case. I see 30-40 year old chrome plated brass second stages come in for service all the time (virtually all of them made by Scubapro and US Divers/Aqualung, given the superb parts and service support offerred by those companies for older models).

DA,

What Mares second stages "look" like metal? They do offer brass bodied second stages in both the full sized version such as the Abyss, and the smaller bodied, Proton series. These offer all of the advantages that you mentioned in your excellent summary of plastic versus metal second stage housings. The front cover is not metal, but it doesn't need to be for thermal advantages.

ScubaPro advertises their "new" S600 Classic in this fashion on their Asian site:
"• Based on the design of the renewed Scubapro classic metal second stage, this unique look includes a metal knob and cover
• Excellent performance in cold water
• Impact and shock resistant"

A metal cover does nothing to alleviate the problem of a plastic housing and valve assembly, as the heat transfer would be very minimal. IMHO, the worse thing that ScubaPro did was to drop the metal valve assembly. Apeks and Atomic both realize that metal simply works better in this regard. ScubaPro simply has allowed the bean counters to call the shots on this important feature.

The Mares metal bodied Protons are very nice in that they offer the thermal advantages, along with very few parts. I really like being able to adjust them through the port plug on the side. You can also easily remove the cover underwater. The MR12 III, Abyss, etc. style is tougher to finely adjust, and can't be disassembled underwater.

I think that ScubaPro could win back a lot of tech divers if they offered a small brass bodied second stage (similar to the metal Proton) paired with their excellent MK17 first stage that you are so fond off. They could still make it a balanced adjustable, if they choose to do so. I would also make a larger exhaust tee, to alleviate the problems of the smallish ones used.

Now I know why I like the discontinued Mares Akros so much. It had metal inserts to help with the thermal concerns, along with a large, efficient exhaust tee. I use two on my doubles, and they are sweet breathers when set to a cracking effort of 1.25". I'm not sure how effective the metal inserts are, but I've never had any ice chips passing through the mouthpiece despite temps in the low 30's.

Greg Barlow

 

[Hoosier]

DA,
ScubaPro advertises their "new" S600 Classic in this fashion on their Asian site:
"• Based on the design of the renewed Scubapro classic metal second stage, this unique look includes a metal knob and cover
• Excellent performance in cold water
• Impact and shock resistant"
Greg Barlow

As you know, the Classic version is just for the advertizing tactic. SP advertized it as a 40th year anniversary version (DA helps me here. I don't know if SP lasts 40 years so far). As DA metioned, "the divers are demanding the "new", "lighter" and more stylish regs." The some divers want to collect it. It is like a 100th Anniversary Gold HASSELBLAD Camera. It is a gold plated on the every edge and its price double.... LOL~~~~

 

[halocline]

Amen to the metal 2nd stage...I love mine. The drymouth bit, for anyone who is a skeptic, is totally true; there's a very noticable difference. In salt water, that alone would be enough for me.

I also think SP could make some money on a "vintage re-issue", with the right marketing spin. (think James Bond and that amazing looking woman in the one that takes place in Greece; can't remember the title, but for some unexplained reason she leaves a tank with a reg on the bottom during a pleasure dive, and of course they end up needing it in a later scene) Of course they'd have to charge an absurd price for it, but I doubt they'd have trouble both getting the high price and sleeping at night. The main problem might be that they last so long that there are lots of the old ones still around and perfectly capable of being rebuilt and put into service.

 

[WarmWaterDiver]

"For Your Eyes Only" - a great movie even if it bends science a bit like all the Bond movies.

"Pleasure Dive" - yeah, that's a good term for it.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The main problem might be that they last so long that there are lots of the old ones still around and perfectly capable of being rebuilt and put into service.

Designed obsolescence is considered good business in most industries. A freind of mine was a mechanical engineer and redesigned the crank shaft in an engine made by a major equipment company (that shall remain nameless). The re-design was done as to many of the old crank shafts were not making it through the warranty period. The new one he designed was 25% lighter and 400% stronger, But the design was rejected as it in effect would never break even well past warranty and would cut into parts sales. They wanted one good enough, but not too good.

With regard to regulators, I supect you are right. Plastic second stage cases have been a real boon to the industry as a good percentage invariably crack or get broken after several years of service and create a good excuse for the customer to get a new reg. Even if they do not get broken, they get scuffed and look bad, prompting a new purchase. On the other hand, a chrome plated brass second stage is like the energizer bunny.

Last year, a sales rep noted how many Mk 5 and Mk 10 repair kits the shop purchased and suggested we should be selling new regs instead of servicing old ones. There is arguably not much money to be made servicing a reg that basically lasts forever, but that kind of durability and service does build extreme customer loyalty - it would be nice if SP got back to that.

 

[oxyhacker]

Great summary. Though I suspect the last thing SP wants is to build a new generation of metal regs that would look classy and last forever, like the old ones are doing! Besides, there are so many of the old ones around that anyone who wants one can have one for a mere $25!

Re drymouth, though, I've always wondered if the reason metal-cased 2nds give less drymouth has less to do with the case than the fact that most of them are older designs with very limited venturi boost. I've done much of my diving over the years with various MKV/X 109/BAs. When I use newer gear I am often shocked by the amount of venturi boost on many of the newer regs, and the accompanying drymouth, even with the boost lever turned all the way down. I suspect this is an unintended consequence of the way regs are tested these days. Cranking up the boost allows them to produce better numbers on the machine.

Consider the following:
SNIP!
I think if Scubapro offered a chrome plated brass second stage like the Balanced Adjustable, made an honest marketing effort promoting it's advantages, and sold it for the same cost as a G250HP, they could sell enough of them to make money.

 

[archman]

I want a metal reg now. I hate all you guys.

 

[divinginn]

want a old or older one?

 

[WarmWaterDiver]

Yeah, they're all over eBay Archman - get a R109 and have DA do his maintenance / upgrade routine on it.

The planned obsolesence and "we don't want to make parts for our older stuff" is why Chrysler is (continuing) having big layoffs and the HQ moving to Europe IMO - as an ex-Mopar gearhead I was incensed when Iacocca took this philosophy - to support sales of the Reliant K and Aeris K (anyone else remember?).

I guess if Scubapro takes such a turn we can only hope they (Johnson Outdoors) get bought out by Daimler (seen the new Challenger Hemi pics yet?). They don't seem to target mediocrity.

 

[aquaoren]

I want a metal reg now. I hate all you guys.

Mares makes very nice ones.