ScubaPro Update product line
- Thread starter Hoosier
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halocline
Contributor
Relax, guys, it was a joke....about the obselete B/A.
I'm a little worried now. I have been putting in 12 hours days writing a grant application. Now I wonder what I have been writingMikeC:Maybe the coffee or tea wasn't working when you wrote this... Which is better then what??
OP
Hoosier
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DA Aquamaster:
Hahaha... Good luck on your application. I know your feeling.... We got the fund form USPS, but we can't use it so far because we need to have a final approval...LOL~~
BTW, what is the price of Trident DIN kit for ScubaPro MK25? I am still waiting for your update....
Your not saying much that most dealers don't already know. Did this person tell you about the MK 11? It'll be out soon.
That they have a new light coming out?
That the AIR II is redesigned?
Did you know that the R Series is all the same reg just different case? Parts are interchangeable.
As far as the 25SA, It's not a good seller why keep it around?
I'm still not sure about the G250 nobody has said anything to the dealers about that or the X650 it's a hot seller.
The classic AIR is another slow seller. The Classic BC is being reworked for next year but will still be around.
There's lots happening out there,
Dave
That they have a new light coming out?
That the AIR II is redesigned?
Did you know that the R Series is all the same reg just different case? Parts are interchangeable.
As far as the 25SA, It's not a good seller why keep it around?
I'm still not sure about the G250 nobody has said anything to the dealers about that or the X650 it's a hot seller.
The classic AIR is another slow seller. The Classic BC is being reworked for next year but will still be around.
There's lots happening out there,
Dave
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Hoosier
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akscubainst:
No, he didn't tell me anything about the new series. Actually, I didn't have a chance to ask him. Just tell us if you have some info. I am also doing the same thing here. So, what is your point?
BTW, here is some info on MK11 you mentioned. I am interested in MK11 in my area though....
1st stage MK11
The MK11 1st stage is the simpler version of the MK17. The MK11 is the MK17 without the dry chamber, which means that this first stage does not have the cold water abilities that the MK17 has. Making this regulator especially suited for the warm water vacation diver or for the spontanious summer diver in the Netherlands.
Furthermore this MK11 has a tremendous airflow, thanks to small improvements in the 1st stage there is less turbulence. Providing the diver with great airflow. The MK11 has 4 lower pressure ports and 2 high pressure ports.
The point is it's not all Cloak and Dagger stuff. They change things from time to time.
The MK11 will be out soon, it's supposed to be a MK17 without the cold water fins so it's a warm water diaphram reg.
AirII will have a much more ergonomic case, otherwise no major internal changes.
The Classic BC will be made more like other BC's not as much of the fancy heat seams.
The light is comming but I don't know anything else. I think there is something else like a knife or something on it's way as well.
The MK11 will be out soon, it's supposed to be a MK17 without the cold water fins so it's a warm water diaphram reg.
AirII will have a much more ergonomic case, otherwise no major internal changes.
The Classic BC will be made more like other BC's not as much of the fancy heat seams.
The light is comming but I don't know anything else. I think there is something else like a knife or something on it's way as well.
R
redacted
Guest
mattboy:
I figured that might be the case. But that is no reason to miss an opportunity to laud all the advances that have been made in scuba regulators. It makes it so much easier to spend big bucks on the newest gadgets.
mahjong
Contributor
awap:
Agree with you here...I have just about every SP 1st-stage from the MK5 through the MK25...my primary is the MK10...and as for second stage, I choose the metal B/A...I dive this combo in all conditions, including deep cold-water dives...no problems and exceptional performance...cannot tell the difference between this setup and MK25/G250...
There is a lot to be said for the Balanced Adjustable. I own a bunch of them and built two rescued off e-bay for a guy this morning. Both were late 60's early 70's "Adjustable" second stages. But with a new balanced S-wing poppet, G250 balance chamber and spring, they turn in performance numbers equal to a G250HP or S600. And the metal case offers superb heat transfer in cold water diving and makes dry mouth virtually non existant.mahjong:
Plastic cases were marketed as a wonderful advancement for divers as they were lighter and offerred more potential for improved performance due to the more complex shapes that could be used. Personally, I am convinced the real motivation for change was production cost. An injection molded second stage has a dealer cost of $4.00-$5.00 while brass cases that had to be stamped, brazed, machined and chrome plated out of relatively expensive brass cost a lot more to produce.
Consider the following:
1) The cost savings were never passed on to the customer by any company. For example a G250 cost more than the Balanced Adjustable it replaced and it really offerred no improvement other than an adjustable flow vane.
2) Plastic cases did allow things like adjustable flow vanes, etc, but not many divers "adjusted" them anyway and they have basically dissapeared from most current Scubapro offerings and are less common in general than they were a few years ago.
3) "Light weight" second stages are way over rated as mouthpiece design and hose lenght have a much bigger impact on jaw fatigue.
4) The plastic cases were bulkier than the brass cases they replaced and led to the desire for smaller compact designs. The problem is compact designs use a smaller diaphragm with less mechanical advantage and poorer potential performance. In contrast the older brass cased second stages used full size diaphragms but in a package not much bigger than today's "compact" second stages and were all in all just as comfortable in the water.
5) For the most part, the promised performance gains have never really materialized. The D400 was an example of the unique engineering that could be done with a plastic case, but it pre-dated the decline of the metal cased second stage and in any event has been discontinued despite it's superb performance.
6) Dry mouth was almost unheard of in the age of the chrome plated brass second stage, but became more of a problem with plastic cases and became a curse when the metal air barrels inside the cases were changed to plastic as well.
7) For a while, cool colors were available and that was at least something. But now were are essentially back to basic black plastic cases. Mares offers some metal looking plastic cases, but it's a cheap looking metal color and is, after all, still only plastic.
8) The durability of a plastic case absolutely sucks compared to a chrome plated brass case. I see 30-40 year old chrome plated brass second stages come in for service all the time (virtually all of them made by Scubapro and US Divers/Aqualung, given the superb parts and service support offerred by those companies for older models). They last forever and still look good unless seriously abused. In contrast plastic cases look scuffed, scraped and ancient after a single season and are prone to cracking over time and are basicially toast if you ever drop a tank on them.
In the era of the metal cased second stage you never saw a second stage freeze up. It just never happened. But I have frequently seen ice form inside plastic second stages - mostly resulting in the reg spitting ice chips at you. But in one case with a Genesis second stage, ice formation caused the lever to freeze in the closed position stopping the flow of air completely. (It created memorable moment for the full face masked ice diver using that second stage.)
So all in all, what you have left to justify the plastic case is much lower production cost. And given that the savings were never passed on to the consumer, what that really means is more profit for scuba companies.
You have to admit though that is was a marketing master stroke for the scuba industry though. Scuba companies cut production costs, built less durable regs that wore out far sooner while offerring no real performance improvement and then sold them for ever higher prices by creating a demand by divers for the "new", "lighter" and more stylish regs. And the campaign was so successful that within a decade companies could not even sell a profitable number of metal second stages despite their advantages. In the words of PT Barnum: "there is a sucker born every minute."
I think a new all metal second stage would sell very well among divers who have been around long enough to appreciate the difference, but I think the majority of divers out there have been indoctrinated to believe that smaller and lighter is always better. Most would not be caught dead on a dive boat with an "old" standard sized metal second stage and most will, sadly, never realize how much better chrome plated brass second stages were to use.
I think if Scubapro offered a chrome plated brass second stage like the Balanced Adjustable, made an honest marketing effort promoting it's advantages, and sold it for the same cost as a G250HP, they could sell enough of them to make money. Of course I don't think that will happen as the materials and skilled labor cost of producing a chrome plated brass case compared to a molded plastic case would cut into their margin. From a bean counter perspective there is no point of producing a less profitable second stage that would compete directly for sales with it's more profitable plastic counterparts.
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