Scubapro G250 poppet assemby

[buddhasummer]

View attachment 169913

This may help. It is a file from Vintage Double hose relating to the 109 and BA, but it would apply to the G250 also. I think there maybe an omission,I believe there was another white poppet with one o-ring before the current version with two. It is described in service release 261.

You are correct, I had a 156 come with white poppet and only one balance chamber O ring.

 

[Bryan@Vintage Double Hose]

At some point the PDF of the Scubapro poppet changes will need to be updated. Couv and I found another variant and I saved it for future reference. If someone can produce an example or a clear picture of a poppet with one O-ring please send it to me so when I revise the PDF it will contain the most up to date information available at the time.

 

[Bryan@Vintage Double Hose]

Btw, VDH has the complete kit, but it ain't cheap.

Neither is buying entire inventories of parts from dive shops just to get SOME parts that I know divers need to service/update their gear. Molds for parts that are no longer available, US made spec O-rings in custom sizes and colors, metal parts and springs produced in low quantities (less than 500 pieces) don't come cheap either. Then consider the ROI on many custom parts is close to 5 years and you can see how quickly an inventory of thousands of dollars adds up, All the while betting that the public will be receptive to what you have to offer. Add that to the hosting cost of an amazing free library of service manuals, schematics and catalogs. It's an immense outlay of capitol and unfortunately I can't run a charitable organization while making a living at the same time.
Just something to consider.

 

[Couv]

If someone can produce an example or a clear picture of a poppet with one O-ring please send it to me so when I revise the PDF it will contain the most up to date information available at the time.

I guess I'll be taking a BA apart pretty soon then. :-(
There is also another poppet out there-I think Zung may have pictures. It was an interim item proven to be rare at least on this side of the pond. It is a poppet that accepts a puck style seat with a hole drilled in it. A rivet with a hole through it secures the seat in place.

 

[Zung]

At some point the PDF of the Scubapro poppet changes will need to be updated. Couv and I found another variant and I saved it for future reference. If someone can produce an example or a clear picture of a poppet with one O-ring please send it to me so when I revise the PDF it will contain the most up to date information available at the time.

Here's one for you

 

[rsingler]

Thanks for posting that, I may need to try the lever that came with my -156...

I'm still a bit befuddled by the lever height issue with the -109's and -156's. It seems that all 3 of mine have levers that were a hair high, even when I installed the "G250" lever with the little toes (as you described), it seemed higher than it should.

You are correct. The tabbed lever does sit too high for the G250.

It is fractionally wider, and is used in 2nds with slightly wider barrels. It was introduced for the second version of the G500, and then used in configuration A of the G250HP, I believe.

Using it in the G250 would require the legs to be rebent. Unfortunately, the tabbed lever does not fit in Herman's jig.

Rebending it to the correct height requires grabbing both tabs at the same time, for example with a padded Vise-Grip.

But I don't use it because the extra width makes for too much side-to-side slop on the G250 barrel. It's too bad, bc the tabs make for extra poppet movement on valve opening (longer lever arm on the tabs) and therefore theoretically better flow.
But they are not G250 levers.
They are early G250HP/late G500 levers. Even the G250HP configuration B had a different lever more like the S600, judging from the Repair Guide. Dunno. I never bought that thing.

 

[Couv]

Thanks for posting that bulletin Dr. Rob. Is there a similar bulletin for the G250 vs. G250v and possibly the 156? We are trying to sort out a "poppet" version history for the 109/BA/G250. The "newest version" poppet in the drawing you posted looks like the poppet in the picture Zung posted.

 

[rsingler]

I'll look thru the library. Hopefully by tomorrow?
As I think about this, I seem to recall a comment from Rene Dupre at one of the Scubapro repair seminars.
I believe the second version of the S-wing poppet came out after some engineering work on the air flow through the barrel. The cutouts in the wings improved that flow. As for the second o-ring, I don't know whether someone reported sand or trash in the balance chamber with subsequent leakage, or whether they just copied the wiper o-ring design they were working on with the Mk25.
It's such a great idea that I'm surprised the Atomic guys didn't use that too. Maybe they were prohibited as part of their departure from SP.

 

[ams511]

You are correct, I had a 156 come with white poppet and only one balance chamber O ring.

Thanks Buddha, but I made that comment almost 4 years ago. LOL

 

[Couv]

I'll look thru the library. Hopefully by tomorrow?
As I think about this, I seem to recall a comment from Rene Dupre at one of the Scubapro repair seminars.
I believe the second version of the S-wing poppet came out after some engineering work on the air flow through the barrel. The cutouts in the wings improved that flow. As for the second o-ring, I don't know whether someone reported sand or trash in the balance chamber with subsequent leakage, or whether they just copied the wiper o-ring design they were working on with the Mk25.
It's such a great idea that I'm surprised the Atomic guys didn't use that too. Maybe they were prohibited as part of their departure from SP.

I did a little digging in the files I have, here are some of the (unorganized) notes:

Lever part numbers:
109 11-109-105
BA 11-109-105 rev R 12/97
G250 11-109-105 rev A 07/88
G250 11-109-105 REV B 12/97
G250HP 11-250-141 rev D 03/00
G250V 11-250-141 rev (none) 03/2007

Bulletin #266 12/99
G250 to G250HP Upgrade compatibility mentions to retain the lever p/n 11.250.141 however, it also mentions earlier versions of the G250 can not be converted. (versions without the CE marking) Are the levers from the later (CE) models backwardly compatible with the non-CE models? Maybe. Bulletin #266 also mentions the up-gradable models have a cover retainer pin.G250C model has this pin see REV B 12/97 diagram. The lever p/n is 11-109-105.....the same as the older models.

On to the poppets:
P/n 11-250-220 poppet, new configuration single o-ring, appears in 06/98 G250 diagram.

From SP Bulletin #261 01/31/1999
"SCUBAPRO has implemented an in-line change in the G500 second stage poppet (current part
number 11.250.220). Production of G500's with the new poppet will begin arriving in your stores shortly before the end of the year. The new poppet will also become a standard in the G250 second stage in mid-1999. The SCUBAPRO part number for the poppet will not change.
Annual repair kits for the G250/G200B/Balanced Adjustable regulators will be shipped with the
new poppet beginning the second week in November (the G500 annual repair kits do not
normally contain a poppet or seat and these can be ordered separately).
The new poppet can be identified by its distinctive shape and the fact that it uses two o'rings on the balance stem instead of one."