Darn, owner's name is.....Roy...something
Scuba Sciences Regulator Repair Problem
- Thread starter cjust
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Small businesses need to be flexible. Every case is different.
I hope holding so steadfast to this policy was worth it.
Speaking in generalities:
A complaint to the BBB, bad publicity or a small claims court procedure is a lot more expensive and damaging. Think of what a call to the news show "3 On Your Side" could have cost the company. Especially with a video like the one in the OP. Would make this thread mute in comparison.
Something like that could hurt the whole local industry. Make Scuba diving look dangerous.
Such a concrete refund policy looks silly in that regard. But it is Paul's shop (maybe not in equity), so who am I to judge. Just adding my opinion.
'nuff said. Back to Switzerland.
jcf
I hope holding so steadfast to this policy was worth it.
Speaking in generalities:
A complaint to the BBB, bad publicity or a small claims court procedure is a lot more expensive and damaging. Think of what a call to the news show "3 On Your Side" could have cost the company. Especially with a video like the one in the OP. Would make this thread mute in comparison.
Something like that could hurt the whole local industry. Make Scuba diving look dangerous.
Such a concrete refund policy looks silly in that regard. But it is Paul's shop (maybe not in equity), so who am I to judge. Just adding my opinion.
'nuff said. Back to Switzerland.
jcf
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Nelson?KazInAz:
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KazInAz:
Sorry... I know it's a wierd business deal... but I thought Paul had it by now. Still... he runs the show... right?
Stephen Ash:
A couple of days ago, I actually rewrote the story to remove the LDS name and any mention of a service problem at all. I also added some of the things I learned from the ordeal. I put it in the 'accidents and incidents' forum thinking it could create some good discussion and serve as a learning tool for others.
It was deleted as a 'spam' duplicate post within minutes. I chatted with the mod for a while saying it was not the same message and served a completely different purpose. She said she discussed it with other mods and they agreed it needed to be deleted. She suggested I post a thread with a link to this one - which is what I did. Nobody has replied to that thread at all. It is too bad b/c this thread is too cluttered with the LDS issue to productively learn from the safety issues.
avoidthebends:
Garrett already responded to this, but I'll chime in too. I don't think anyone really "enjoys" diving in the lakes. If I had a choice, I'd be in Florida or Mexico or SoCal or the Caribbean...(you get the picture)...every month. But I can't afford those trips that often. I also don't want to go more than a couple of weeks without getting wet. So I head to the lakes. They provide an affordable means of getting a few dives in and also allow those of us that do dive there to socialize with other divers on occasion. I've met a lot of great people at Lake Pleasant while diving there. Diving there has also allowed me to greatly improve my buoyancy and keep improving it. If I only went diving every few months and only logged a couple dozen dives a year, I would have to start all over again every time. Practice makes perfect (or almost perfect). Some of the best divers I've seen are the ones that dive the lakes regularly.
scubadiver1302001
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sjspeck:
not nelson
roy nelson owns ocean plant
but roy --- is the owner and poul is the GM
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This thread is getting out of control. Some of you have given constructive criticism and others are unfair and unjust.
Those of you who are questioning our Service Technician's experience level should know he has been trained by just about every scuba manuf out there and even teaches the Scubapro and Zeagle repair classes to Manuf reps and other Service Techs from around the country. He is one of the most experienced (well over 25 years), if not the most experienced in the Phoenix area.
The reason we are not offering a refund is because the service was completed according to Manuf specs, parts were replaced, tested by the customer under air pressure before he left, and everything was working perfectly when it left our facility. There are so many things that could have happened to this regulator after it left: transporting in cars, tossed around in luggage, jostled on boats, misuse, etc. It would be hard to say what happened to this regulator, yet so many of you are quick to blame us. Many of you stated that our offer to the customer was reasonable.
We are not acting anonomously, everything is in plain view. It's easy to make negative comments when you not talking in person and hiding behind a username.
It seems very strange to me that there is not one person in the city of Phoenix that has anything bad to say about any other scuba store in town. When I'm working at Scuba Sciences I have a lot of customers who bring us equipment to service and take our scuba courses when they are not happy with other stores. In fact we had a customer who joined us for our trip to Bonaire last year, had her equipment serviced at another LDS (Their Tech was not certified to work on her Zeagle Products) and the BC auto inflated her to the surface so quickly that they took her to the hospital for observation. So I know issues happen elsewhere.
I hope to see more constructive conversations on SB, and less bashing. After all, this is supposed to be the forum to share experiences, gain knowledge and learn from each other, not turn conversations into a bashing session.
Those of you who are questioning our Service Technician's experience level should know he has been trained by just about every scuba manuf out there and even teaches the Scubapro and Zeagle repair classes to Manuf reps and other Service Techs from around the country. He is one of the most experienced (well over 25 years), if not the most experienced in the Phoenix area.
The reason we are not offering a refund is because the service was completed according to Manuf specs, parts were replaced, tested by the customer under air pressure before he left, and everything was working perfectly when it left our facility. There are so many things that could have happened to this regulator after it left: transporting in cars, tossed around in luggage, jostled on boats, misuse, etc. It would be hard to say what happened to this regulator, yet so many of you are quick to blame us. Many of you stated that our offer to the customer was reasonable.
We are not acting anonomously, everything is in plain view. It's easy to make negative comments when you not talking in person and hiding behind a username.
It seems very strange to me that there is not one person in the city of Phoenix that has anything bad to say about any other scuba store in town. When I'm working at Scuba Sciences I have a lot of customers who bring us equipment to service and take our scuba courses when they are not happy with other stores. In fact we had a customer who joined us for our trip to Bonaire last year, had her equipment serviced at another LDS (Their Tech was not certified to work on her Zeagle Products) and the BC auto inflated her to the surface so quickly that they took her to the hospital for observation. So I know issues happen elsewhere.
I hope to see more constructive conversations on SB, and less bashing. After all, this is supposed to be the forum to share experiences, gain knowledge and learn from each other, not turn conversations into a bashing session.
R
redacted
Guest
Scuba Sciences:
The problem is that a regulator that has been serviced but the LP hose connection not tightened will appear to be working perfectly. There will not be any leak from the loose connection until it works its way a couple turns loser. And a properly tightened connection is not going to come lose without someone taking a tool to it. So it really isn't very hard to say what most likely happened to this regulator. And I have no doubt that your tech is competent, experienced, and well qualified. But it sure looks like this one slipped by him and anyone checking the work before the regulator is returned to the customer. I understand. I've done things like that myself with my own regulators. But when I realized what I did I took a critical look at my process and tools and changed what I was doing to prevent future occurances.
I was one of the posters who said your offer was reasonable. You could have simply denied any responsibility and sent him packing. But he is not comfortable with your offer and his counter request is also quite reasonable. He is not asking for anything unreasonable. Had you done what he asked, this thread would probably never have existed and the consequences would have been you would have been out the cost of a service and one customer. As it is, you are probably going to get to keep the money from his botched service. The bashing that has gone on toward your shop (not specifically the tech service but the customer service) is basically well deserved. I think, in the end, Mr. Just's loss will be quite small compared to loss that Scuba Science will incur. The shame is it is hard to count how many customers won't be in your shop as a result of this unfortunate incident and its subsequent handling by SSI. In some cases, even bad publicity is good advertising. This is not one of them.
It is not too late to make it right.
Edit: Perhaps there is one point of misunderstanding here. You do understand the when an LP connection to a 2nd stage is left only finger tight the regulator will still appear to be working correctly. It will not leak and it will breath normally. That connections takes about 4 full turns to snug but the o-ring will make the seal after only 2 turns.
Edit again: Ref Mfgr specs - This is copied from a Zeagle service manual; 5.5.2 Install the new O-rings (31,33) onto the hose assembly (30). Install the hose between a serviced first stage and the second stage, tighten snugly. Use two wrenches to tighten the second stage hose connection.
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