Scuba Sciences Regulator Repair Problem

[scubajcf]

This thread is getting out of control. Some of you have given constructive criticism and others are unfair and unjust.

Those of you who are questioning our Service Technician's experience level should know he has been trained by just about every scuba manuf out there and even teaches the Scubapro and Zeagle repair classes to Manuf reps and other Service Techs from around the country. He is one of the most experienced (well over 25 years), if not the most experienced in the Phoenix area.

The reason we are not offering a refund is because the service was completed according to Manuf specs, parts were replaced, tested by the customer under air pressure before he left, and everything was working perfectly when it left our facility. There are so many things that could have happened to this regulator after it left: transporting in cars, tossed around in luggage, jostled on boats, misuse, etc. It would be hard to say what happened to this regulator, yet so many of you are quick to blame us. Many of you stated that our offer to the customer was reasonable.

We are not acting anonomously, everything is in plain view. It's easy to make negative comments when you not talking in person and hiding behind a username.

It seems very strange to me that there is not one person in the city of Phoenix that has anything bad to say about any other scuba store in town. When I'm working at Scuba Sciences I have a lot of customers who bring us equipment to service and take our scuba courses when they are not happy with other stores. In fact we had a customer who joined us for our trip to Bonaire last year, had her equipment serviced at another LDS (Their Tech was not certified to work on her Zeagle Products) and the BC auto inflated her to the surface so quickly that they took her to the hospital for observation. So I know issues happen elsewhere.

I hope to see more constructive conversations on SB, and less bashing. After all, this is supposed to be the forum to share experiences, gain knowledge and learn from each other, not turn conversations into a bashing session.

Are you saying, with 100% conviction, that there is no way that this could have been your fault?

Interesting how you are so quick to disavow the incident as a result of your service regarding Mr. Just's regulator. However, in your post, you quickly make the same connection with the other LDS. Maybe when that autoinflator left the other store it was working fine. Perhaps the other LDS followed all the manufacturers specs and signed lots of paperwork. However, you "know issues happen elsewhere".

I don't think the tech in your shop is the biggest problem. It's the way the shop has handled the problem.

Whatever ...


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[scubadiver3]

I purchased my BC from Scuba Sciences and take it there every year for it's annual servicing. I have always had great service, my bc works great and it has been very reliable.

I purchased my regulator recently, also from Paul at the location off of the freeway, and I have been so happy with it! Paul had the Service Technician put the hose mesh on it for free to help the hoses not get any nicks or scratches, they assembled it while I waited, tested it, and Paul even registered my regulator with Scuba Pro and sat down to show me how to use my Scuba Pro computer.

He told me if anything on either my BC or regulator need to be adjusted or repaired between now and my next service, they would do it for FREE.

I came back the next weekend and tried my regulator out in the deep pool and just loved it.

I have always felt comfortable with the people at Scuba Sciences (ever since I got certified). I trusted them to train me, dive and travel with them, and always will.

Thank you

 

[undefined]

I lack the experience and knowledge to say if this was the fault of the LDS, but here is my take on it.

If this happened to me, I'd be more torqued than the 2nd stage hose to be sure. I'd demand a refund from the LDS and an overhaul on the gear. Something that works "under pressure" on the surface and fails at 100' could be deadly. **** happens, I know, but a refund is not an extraordinary request. I own a consulting firm, and though my work does not, to my knowledge, put my clients lives at risk it can cost several hundred thousand dollars per hour if there is an error or problem. Refunding a consulting fee to make a customer happy would be a small price to pay to keep the customer, or even just to keep the customer from litigating! Most service oriented businesses, including LDS, endure far less financial risk than the risk(s) their customers take in putting faith in them. If my gear fails while at 100'+ the miniscule price I paid for the gear will be of little concern. A $50 - $100 service fee should be a no-brainer....

If this happened to my wife's gear the experience would be far less pleasant for all involved. My patience is plentiful when it comes to my own life, as I know and accept without reservations that I may perish while diving , but if someone puts my wife's life in danger due to questionable service the consequences will be far more dire and permenant. Wars have been fought over women, and a simple posting on SB would barely scratch the surface of my response.

My point in this is clear - $50 or $100 is cheap. It's a drop in the bucket. Refunding a customer is never fun, but doing so to make the customer happy and keep out of the negative public view is a worthwhile expenditure. Blaming everyone but yourself - including the various transportation methods and potential customer error only brings ruin to a business. I don't know Scuba Sciences, nor will I likely ever do business with them, but I am of the simple belief that what the OP asked for was not only reasonable, but was down right lenient! A wrongful death suit would have most likely cut through that disclaimer like a hot knife through butter, and if I were in Scuba Science's position I'd be darned glad that the OP had a good buddy, a level head, and good fortune on his side. Anything less and this thread would have the names removed due to the Accidents and Incidents TOS and include a link to a well written obit for the OP.

Accidents happen. Techs can be distracted or have an off day. Recognizing that a customer is disenchanted and wants a simple refund on service that they feel was rendered in an unacceptable manner should not be as difficult as Scuba Science has made it out to be. A simple "We test all gear before releasing it to the customer. While we cannot test for all possible situations, our customers come first. What can we do to make this right" would have resolved this situation without over 150 posts on SB lamenting the screw up, whoever may be at fault. Bad service can be forgiven, bad customer service lasts forever.

 

[RJP]

The reason we are not offering a refund is because the service was completed according to Manuf specs, parts were replaced, tested by the customer under air pressure before he left, and everything was working perfectly when it left our facility. There are so many things that could have happened to this regulator after it left: transporting in cars, tossed around in luggage, jostled on boats, misuse, etc. It would be hard to say what happened to this regulator, yet so many of you are quick to blame us.

Well, we're on post #164 and it seems clear that you've not learned the lesson I was taught as a teenager working in a bike shop...

"No matter what actually happened, you never win an argument with a customer."

 

[GreenDiverDown]

We are not acting anonomously, everything is in plain view. It's easy to make negative comments when you not talking in person and hiding behind a username.

Many of us post or sign our posts with our real name. Others who do not are still well known in this community.

The ONLY person who has posted in a deceptive manner is the coach for your team. I can't believe his actions didn't violate the TOS. If nothing else it was quite telling of his values and a classic example of how he operates.

http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=2367492&postcount=81

(Note that only the first paragraph was written by ScubaPig 52. The rest of the post was a quote from Rob.)

This thread is getting out of control. Some of you have given constructive criticism and others are unfair and unjust.

This is ScubaBoard... it's just par for the course.

There are so many things that could have happened to this regulator after it left: transporting in cars, tossed around in luggage, jostled on boats, misuse, etc.

I'll call BS once more on this one.

 

[Sam Miller III]

Heck!

I would question via PRIDE --Personal Responsibility in Daily Effort--there is strong responsibility for the individual to check and double check equipment, especially if ones life was at stake...

I will also repost this here;

In 1993 was was searching for information on an older single hose regulator, the "Sea Pro DS/FS." The company had totally disappeared and I had exhausted my California contacts. A Phoenix diver, Harry Backenstein who was in the middle of writting 'Whos's who of Scuba Diving," suggested I write Scuba Sciences. He stated they were big fans of Sea Pro and were at that time sill using the regulators and Sea Pro's most famous product the "At Pac"

I wrote SCUBA Sciences asking if they had any information on the Sea Pro DS/FS. A few days later I received an envelope containing several pages of the overhaul procedures and a schematic of the regulator but no letter, or no contact name . It was the right company, Sea Pro, but the wrong model, I had requested information on the DS/FS model 100 and they send me information on the model 200 (or vis-a-versa.)

I wrote a thank you letter in which I stated they had sent some valuable information, but not what I needed- Did they have information on the other model-what ever it was?

No answer! Wrote again- no answer! My interest was directed to other areas and the quest for Sea Pro information put aside.

Now 14-perhaps 15 years later I have the opportunity to thank Scuba Sciences for their quick response to my request but concurrently state their follow up and lack of response left a little to be desired. However, I must also recognize that they are in the business of selling goods and services and not a repository of data like a public library---But I still need the information! SDM
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FYI
As a post script;
My family has had a connection to Arizona in the pioneering days long before state hood. Several Arizona land marks and cities...

Early in the Koren war (1950-53) I was stationed at Luke AFB --I wrote of my misadventures in building a CO2 Spear Gun at Luke AFB in "The Magnificent Gas Gun" in my column "The way it was" in "Discover Diving" in 1992. I also had a column in Arizona Diving News titled "Our Diving heritage." Wrote lots of articles on early Arizona diving--including diving in San Carlos in the early 1950s to 1965. It has changed a wee bit as has Arizona and Diving.

I was a good friend of the late Boris Inocenti, who opened the very first Dive shop in Arizona in the 1950s? 60s?

And My Son Sam IV, who is also listed in "Who's who of Scuba diving" is completing a four year ER internship at Kingman hospital.

So a strong Arizona connection but still, after all these good years, no information on the Regulator DS/FS model # 100 & 200!

Yes, I would shop at Scuba Sciences and allow them to work on my equipment if I were a citizen of the Valley of the sun!

Cheers from California --were it all began!

SDM
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[omar]

I have a couple of observations about this thread.

If you have a loose second stage regulator hose connection that is leaking underwater and you tighten the hose down when it is under pressure you will most likely cut the o-ring. If you cut the o-ring the connection will leak the next time you pressure it up.

The correct way to deal with this scenario underwater is to shut the valve down, release the pressure on the reg, tighten the hose connection and then open the valve back up. Failing that calling the dive is the correct call.

Also,
I posted a response to a question about Scuba Sciences on another forum a couple of years ago. I was heavily criticized, which included a response from a Scuba Sciences employee, for providing a factual account of what I observed. My point is - I know what I saw and no amount of protests will change my opinion of their operation. This thread just reinforces that.

 

[redacted]

I have a couple of observations about this thread.

If you have a loose second stage regulator hose connection that is leaking underwater and you tighten the hose down when it is under pressure you will most likely cut the o-ring. If you cut the o-ring the connection will leak the next time you pressure it up.

I am a hardhead. I had posted that the O-ring should survive in another thread. Now this is the second claim that it would be cut. So I figured I'd give it a try. On the first iteration, while still thinking about sample size considerations and experimental protocol, that little booger got sliced in two!:11: I don't think I'm going to try that again. Hardheaded but not entirely stupid.

 

[mdb]

I am a hardhead. I had posted that the O-ring should survive in another thread. Now this is the second claim that it would be cut. So I figured I'd give it a try. On the first iteration, while still thinking about sample size considerations and experimental protocol, that little booger got sliced in two!:11: I don't think I'm going to try that again. Hardheaded but not entirely stupid.

awap: Thanks for the info. LDS issues aside, this thread has been very informative. After diving for over 35 years you learn something new every day. SB is a great resource.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

I have a couple of observations about this thread.

If you have a loose second stage regulator hose connection that is leaking underwater and you tighten the hose down when it is under pressure you will most likely cut the o-ring. If you cut the o-ring the connection will leak the next time you pressure it up.

The correct way to deal with this scenario underwater is to shut the valve down, release the pressure on the reg, tighten the hose connection and then open the valve back up. Failing that calling the dive is the correct call.

Yes. This is what I was alluding to in my earlier post. Since we've gone down that road now, we might as well continue.

Finger-tightening is not a good idea for an OW singles rig. It is for doubles and the idea was that you could switch out a non-functioning second stage with one that was working, ie one from a deco or stage bottle. This was a WKKP thing for awhile... still may be... I don't know. It carried over to DIR for a short time but now has been discarded in favor of carrying a wrench... I believe. (Someone else more current in DIR may be able to answer that better than I.

As Omar points out... you first go to your backup, then notify your team mate of the problem. Then you shut down your primary and purge the reg. Then you re-tighten. Tightening it under pressure WILL cut the O-ring... been there, done that! Once re-tightened you can open your primary and switch back to that reg. You would follow the same procedure to swap out a problem reg.

If this should happen when in a singles rig (and it shouldn't because you should have that connection tightened with the appropriate torque) then the procedure would involve going to your buddy's alternate first, then shutting down, purging and re-tightening. Hopefully you would catch the leak before the second stage fell off! But if it did then Rick's suggestion would be a great way to deal with a LOST second.

What I didn't like about the video was the RELATIVELY fast ascent to the surface. We all know... problems under the water need to be solved... UNDER THE WATER.