Regulator sourcing discussion

[Slamfire]

...they employ people and contribute to the UK economy as a result. This is some evidence to justify the price tag and allow people to make a choice as to what they buy from where and why.

Why should I be concerned about the UK economy over my own household economy or that of any other country for that matter? These days Spain's economy needs a little more help than UK. Perhaps we should all make a collective effort to resurrect Nemrod and buy regs only from them. To help their economy, you know... I've heard that Toledo swords are better than Sheffield swords

 

[TomZ]

Perception of quality is a big issue. What is quality? It's a subjective assessment. Even Dr. Deming, the guru of what came to be known as Total Quality Management (TQM) taught that the consumer's perception of quality was paramount. What makes one regulator "higher quality" or "premium"? Performance (a subjective can 'o worms all on its own), materials, fit, finish, reputation, industry standing, longevity, marketing, price, serviceability, customer service? It's all of the previous qualifiers, and more. The qualifiers you choose influence your perception. Is HOG just as good as Scubapro, Apeks, et al? Depends on your definition of quality.

Are "off-shore" (non-North American/European) manufacturers "world class"? I work in Quality Assurance for the DoD. In my experience a much greater percentage of off-shore manufacturers make inferior products. Some off-shore manufacturers however, make great products. Are ISO certifications an assurance of higher quality? Not necessarily, but lack of the certification overwhelmingly indicates lower quality. How does the look and feel of a product affect your perception; when the look and feel of a product where appearance and feel are secondary? Compare a Snap-On wrench to a Craftsman. Will they do the same job, within 90% of their maximum tolerances? Which one would you prefer to hold in your hand? How confident and comfortable are you with your choice of regulator? Does confidence in a manufacturer's product and reputation make diving less stressful for you, or has your experience built confidence in your choices?

I considered HOG regs recently. I was ready to buy, but an amazing deal came up on Craigslist for a set of "premium" regs, so I went that way instead, having them completely overhauled and upgraded. I took the equipment specialty a few weeks ago, rebuilding my current Sherwood Magnum regs. I really wish I was more knowledgeable about regulators, and could do a valid comparison during teardown, educating myself. Unfortunately for non-professionals, those who are professionals have a dog somewhere in this fight. Manufacturers believe in their product. Retailers have a vested interest in the success of the brands they carry. Even LDS employees are "encouraged" to use house brands. Unbiased third party professional reviewers can even be suspected of undue influence. Consumers can build loyalties based on limited experiences, defending their brand with a vengence: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Mercedes, etc., etc.

Grrrrr.

 

[redacted]

FACT - Apeks Marine does not source ANY parts for their regulators from anywhere. They are all made in house in Blackburn England. Their facility is world class, they employ people and contribute to the UK economy as a result. This is some evidence to justify the price tag and allow people to make a choice as to what they buy from where and why.

Are you saying they make their own seals (seats and o-rings)?

 

[KJSmith84]

Well, I see it the other way around, which is why I posted in the first place. An almost cult-ish following of the brand by owners and dealers that just wont entertain anyone elses opinion. Reminds me of auto enthusiasts. You know, those car owners clubs who meet in a field somewhere and talk about their brand of car and spout vitriol about anyone who dares to disagree with them.

I was starting to think i was the only one that noticed this.


yet another interesting thread involving Hog. wonder how many pages this ones will be?

 

[chrpai]

For me, it's simply not true. My dad owned nothing but Chevy's. I've owned a few, but also Dodge, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda and Kia. I'll switch brands in a heartbeat depending on who has a great value proposition that meets my minimum requirements. Same for regs. I've dove/owned Sherwood, Cressi, Mares, ScubaPro, Hog et al...

If someone wants to pick up a used "premium" reg and get it overhauled, that's a good plan also. That's pretty much all my normal buddy does and it works just fine for him.

So please, enough with the "fanboy loves x because that's all he's over known" fiction.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Hog NEVER intended to go after or be an Equal to Apeks, SP, or Atomic. They came out with a product, and made it the best they can. The goal has always been to provide a TOP NOTCH product, at a value price. The fact that Chris is continually putting them all in the same category is a WIN for Hog.....Hog regs are VERY nice for the price. Anyone who says other, is truly saying it for biased reasons. Are they better than X, Y, or Z? Maybe, that depends on the person comparing the products and what criteria they are looking at.

Yes Chris, I know that dive was for PR. Not sure why we needed you to fully disclose the info as I clearly told people they could look it up themselves if they didn't know who she was. How about Andrew Georgitsis? UTD as an agency? They use Hog....

Hog is a GREAT value....that is and always will be the vision for the company. I do sell Hog regs, but I would never skew someone into buying something based on me selling a product line or not as someone previously posted (not directly about us, but in general). If something is better, it is better....anyone who says other wise will be known as a fool. Apeks has some better features, does that mean to me they are worth 2-3x's the money? No...I have a mix of Atomic and Hog....and overall for me, I prefer the Atomic. The reason is specific to ME. I like a Balanced Piston design, and the second stage is light as a feather. That makes it a winner for ME, with my criteria. If I was looking for a second tough as nails (like on my stage) I would go HOG. No other second stage is built as tough, hence I use it where it takes a beating, and the cost is truly a perfect match for my use.

Everyone is different, just find out what you need in a regulator, and that will be the best choice for YOU

 

[Pao]

I think there is something that HOG has put to the table which no other manufacturer has done and was neglected in this discussion: They provided a path for the consumer to service their own regulators. It is something I doubt any big name manufacturer will follow soon since this is a major revenue stream for them and their dealers. It is a big attraction for the DIY'ers like me. It is not about saving cost during service - hell it might even cost more due to the equipment if you really want to do it properly - but for those of us who wants to understand how things work and know that your life support equipment was put together properly.... Well its sorta hard to explain but the consummate DIY'er will understand .

 

[cbm32]

"We are saying please don't insult our intelligence by claiming the component materials are equal or better than apeks, Poseidon etc. I think I clarified that at least 4 times in this thread."

You clarified that that is your position but you have never clarified what the position is based on. Not once have you said what components are used in the others that are not used in the HOG's or why those components are better. Just because you state it over and over and over doesnt make it true. You would have a much better chance of convincing other people that it is true if you would provide some actual facts/data to support that claim. Restating it over and over without doing so leads one to believe you dont have any such evidence and, I for one, therefore conclude that it is probably NOT true and you have some vested interest in trying to make others believe it is true. Provide support for the claim or forget using it please.

 

[j2s]

Must be another guy that believes "you get what you pay for". Well, in a way he is right. With some stuff you get a familiar name and pay through the nose for it. If you want to by a "name" stay away from HOG. But, if you want to only pay for the reg you get, and not pay a premium for the name recognition,....step up and join us HOG/EDGE owners.

Ditto and ditto to what Aqua-Andy stated...Use to be an Apeks user....Deep/Cave and Tech......Good company.........Then found HOG....Better, less expensive and like Aqua-Andy, no problem getting parts for self-maintenance.......Why pay more, when you can get more for less.......We live in a 'global economy', have been for years......Where something is made is irrelevant, but quality is.......HOG has that; + price, +customer service, + parts availability.......

 

[redacted]

Ditto and ditto to what Aqua-Andy stated...Use to be an Apeks user....Deep/Cave and Tech......Good company.........Then found HOG....Better, less expensive and like Aqua-Andy, no problem getting parts for self-maintenance.......Why pay more, when you can get more for less.......We live in a 'global economy', have been for years......Where something is made is irrelevant, but quality is.......HOG has that; + price, +customer service, + parts availability.......

In what way are they "better"?