Regulator Repair or Replace? That is the Question.

[Bob DBF]

Why “should” it be $30 a stage? I find it quite frankly amusing that people spend $1000 on a reg and then whine if the technician makes more than minimum wage.

I find it quite frankly amusing that people spend $1000 on a reg. If I paid that much, I'd want free service for life included.

Well, the second stage should freeflow weeeelll before the explodey-lungs-of-death scenario, in most cases...

How many folks use upstream seconds, and without an OPV, anymore?



Bob

 

[shurite7]

I bought my girlfriend a set of legends. She was very disappointed, because the overhauled 109's (g250 diaphragm and internals) with mk5's I gave her to start out with a year ago breathe better than the aqualung legends straight from the factory. Ok, it's probably a problem that I could easily fix by adjusting the reg properly. But it's still pretty insane to me that regs from the 70's and 80's perform better than top notch high end regulators straight from the box. Or someone at the aqualung factory who is setting up the regs should get fired. Like for real.

Brand new regulators are only set to range, the first and second stages are not tuned together. The manufactures expect the store to do that when the reg is purchased by a customer. Not all sales people are aware of this, sadly.

I can tune a Legend, or another Scubapro or Apeks reg to breathe as well as an older Mk5/109, 156 or adjustable. The idea the older regs will always breathe better isn't an accurate statement. When it comes to cold water dive the Mk5 is out. When it comes to diving warm comfortable waters the Mk5 and its second stage are fairly nice. I can make a Mk20/S555 breathe easier, and more stable, than the Mk5/Adjustable.

 

[runsongas]

mk5 can be packed with lube to make it more resistant to freezing.

 

[shurite7]

mk5 can be packed with lube to make it more resistant to freezing.

Indeed it can. It still isn't that great for cold high elevation mountain lake diving. One mustn't forget the second stage. I've seen more second stages give out than first stages when diving in cold lakes. Over the years I've owned and rebuilt several older regulators and dived with them. It has been fun and a good learning experience. The bottom line is, they have their limits and are not completely resistant to freezing, even when packed. This doesn't mean it is a bad reg, rather a reg with limitations.

 

[AfterDark]

I bought my girlfriend a set of legends. She was very disappointed, because the overhauled 109's (g250 diaphragm and internals) with mk5's I gave her to start out with a year ago breathe better than the aqualung legends straight from the factory. Ok, it's probably a problem that I could easily fix by adjusting the reg properly. But it's still pretty insane to me that regs from the 70's and 80's perform better than top notch high end regulators straight from the box. Or someone at the aqualung factory who is setting up the regs should get fired. Like for real.

If in all my years of diving I've yet to use a reg I like better than 5/190/156 combo. Never had one fail ever for any reason. They were the high end at that time and are the most copied regs and the basic design that most regs are built on. Some things can't be improved upon. They just find different ways of doing the same thing, sometimes in a more complicated manner. My 1st Mk5 is still in use, it's celebrating 50 years of diving also, in fact it is my primary reg, that is I use whether, I use a single tank or my ID's. The 2nd stage had to be retired 2 years ago, the cross bar for the exhaust valve broke in 2 places when I last removed the valve. Now it sits in my museum of my vintage dive gear.

 

[AfterDark]

Brand new regulators are only set to range, the first and second stages are not tuned together. The manufactures expect the store to do that when the reg is purchased by a customer. Not all sales people are aware of this, sadly.

I can tune a Legend, or another Scubapro or Apeks reg to breathe as well as an older Mk5/109, 156 or adjustable. The idea the older regs will always breathe better isn't an accurate statement. When it comes to cold water dive the Mk5 is out. When it comes to diving warm comfortable waters the Mk5 and its second stage are fairly nice. I can make a Mk20/S555 breathe easier, and more stable, than the Mk5/Adjustable.

LOL!! You make me laugh. Where did you read that? I've used my MK5/109s year round in New England for the last 50 years never had one freeze ever not even once. This includes ice diving in both fresh and salt water. I'll be using it on New Years Day at FTW RI. just like every year.

 

[Centrals]

Apeks exclusively for the last 21 yrs(rec or tec).
Learnt how to service them 15yrs ago and it has been plain sailing since. Service kits are readily available locally and never need any SPARE part for any repair so far. No special tools are required perhaps except the C-spanner.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

+1 Eric! I use Scubapro MkV/ 109 regs bought on ebay for peanuts. Less than $100.00 and an hours time I convert the 109's to 156's, rebuild the 1st stage and get easy breathing, reliable regulators. I have 4 of those regs now, 2 for my ID's 1 for my wife and one spare. This year I bought a USD Calypso J for my pony bottle. That reg works so well I haven't even touched yet!

Yeah I have a MK5/109-156 too, plus a cherry 108 now (all that stuff thanks to Couv), and a MK20/G200B and a MK2/R195, and some other Conshelf stuff, and a box of old Dacor stuff, and more Aqualung stuff. And that’s after getting rid of two boxes of stuff already. Most of it was all free.
I will never need to buy new regs as long as I live. The only problem I have is trying to decide which set to use each time I go out diving.

 

[Joris Vd]

Brand new regulators are only set to range, the first and second stages are not tuned together. The manufactures expect the store to do that when the reg is purchased by a customer. Not all sales people are aware of this, sadly.

I can tune a Legend, or another Scubapro or Apeks reg to breathe as well as an older Mk5/109, 156 or adjustable. The idea the older regs will always breathe better isn't an accurate statement. When it comes to cold water dive the Mk5 is out. When it comes to diving warm comfortable waters the Mk5 and its second stage are fairly nice. I can make a Mk20/S555 breathe easier, and more stable, than the Mk5/Adjustable.

I've never claimed older regs will breathe better. I'm just stating that out of the box, from the shop I've bought it, the legend was set alot worse than I could set the mk5 with the 156 myself with just a small homemade hobby test bench.
It could be that the store did not adjust it properly before sale was made.

Indeed it can. It still isn't that great for cold high elevation mountain lake diving. One mustn't forget the second stage. I've seen more second stages give out than first stages when diving in cold lakes. Over the years I've owned and rebuilt several older regulators and dived with them. It has been fun and a good learning experience. The bottom line is, they have their limits and are not completely resistant to freezing, even when packed. This doesn't mean it is a bad reg, rather a reg with limitations.

About the cold water department, purely speaking about the second stage:
Except the abyss 22 or xstream I don't think there are many second stages LESS prone to freezing than the 109's ? Or is there something specific I'm missing here which should make the 109/156 more prone to freeflowing compared to modern cold water regs.
The only real downside I can find to the 156 is the small exhaust valve and the cross exhaust valve which makes it possible for the exhaust valve to click inwards ( a typical problem the abyss 22 also suffers from).

Honestly if there was a 156 with a twist on/off top, with a spider exhaust valve brazed at 34 mm, it would be the perfect second stage or am I missing something greatly here?
(so basically a brass g250).

 

[caruso]

I send my regs to a tech I found online who services each one for between $35-$50 including return shipping. Turn around time is typically less than 1 week. My job is just to remove the hoses and package them up, once every 3-5 years or sooner if there's an issue. I'd rather skip the initial tool investment, the time it takes to do the work, and have someone who does this multiple times per day, most days of the week, service my life support equipment.