Regulator brand bias?
- Thread starter dgangi
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
psionicdfw
Registered
so now we know what not to get you for Christmas?
jhelmuth
Contributor
It's not about regulators... that is - when it comes to why people recommend one brand/model over another. I've always found that people have a bias toward what they own (everyone you know has this bias on what house to buy - or where, what car, TV, etc.). It justifies why they made the right decision. And that does not make them wrong - just biased. The only genuine opinions you'll know of are the ones that recommend against a currently owned model.
If you really want an answer that is correct for you, I recommend that you write down the 3 most important criteria for you and a "not-one-penny-more" top price you are either willing to pay or have budgeted for. Do this before researching. Next, check for all the independent information you can gather and list at least 3 alternatives and 1 most wanted. Now go and find the LDS that carry them (may require more than one dive shop - but hopefully not so they is no bias from them). Account for service in your decision and buy the one that is either the best value or the one that makes you happy.
I have found that you can justify purchases in both a positive and negative (why not to buy a model) way that can leave you feeling unhappy in the end. If you accomplish your top 3 criteria (more is even better yet), I'll bet you will be happy...
...and will recommend it to all your buddies!
:gotcha:
If you really want an answer that is correct for you, I recommend that you write down the 3 most important criteria for you and a "not-one-penny-more" top price you are either willing to pay or have budgeted for. Do this before researching. Next, check for all the independent information you can gather and list at least 3 alternatives and 1 most wanted. Now go and find the LDS that carry them (may require more than one dive shop - but hopefully not so they is no bias from them). Account for service in your decision and buy the one that is either the best value or the one that makes you happy.
I have found that you can justify purchases in both a positive and negative (why not to buy a model) way that can leave you feeling unhappy in the end. If you accomplish your top 3 criteria (more is even better yet), I'll bet you will be happy...
...and will recommend it to all your buddies!
:gotcha:
Cherry
Contributor
This really sounds like a Ford/Chevy/Mopar argument from 1974 
And I strongly suspect its what your OW instructor ingrained into your nogin. Now my OW instructor had a Apeks 200 so what am I using ...duh an Apeks. If my Instructor had a Atomics thats probably what I would consider the best. Pay the Dinero in most cases you will prob get what you pay for whether its an Apeks 200 or an Atomics 25/600. Interesting to look at some reviews tho, It will have the Atomics guys hootin and hollerin' for entry level regs tho I think based on it you should check out IST Prolines cheap like Borsch ( thats a cabbage soup that should be eaten with loaves of Bread and Pounds of butter sinful, vegetarian and very gooood)
personally I drive a Toyota own an Mg that takes far too much maint. but is way too much fun and dive an Apeks reg. Some one should come up with a little apeks guy pissin on an Atomic logo eh
And I strongly suspect its what your OW instructor ingrained into your nogin. Now my OW instructor had a Apeks 200 so what am I using ...duh an Apeks. If my Instructor had a Atomics thats probably what I would consider the best. Pay the Dinero in most cases you will prob get what you pay for whether its an Apeks 200 or an Atomics 25/600. Interesting to look at some reviews tho, It will have the Atomics guys hootin and hollerin' for entry level regs tho I think based on it you should check out IST Prolines cheap like Borsch ( thats a cabbage soup that should be eaten with loaves of Bread and Pounds of butter sinful, vegetarian and very gooood) personally I drive a Toyota
own an Mg that takes far too much maint. but is way too much fun and dive an Apeks reg. Some one should come up with a little apeks guy pissin on an Atomic logo eh
jhelmuth
Contributor
Cherry - sorry bud, but you were wrong. It may sound like whatever you think it sounds like - but it is what it is - my experience and understanding from years of observation and insight. It's not crap from my DI - it's my crap. I'll admit the analogies were probably not "spot-on" and maybe they influenced your understanding of where I am coming from. Let me try to be more lucid...
We think (justify) in terms that support our wants, needs, and desires. We devise arguments that agree with our opinion and experience. Today's American (others?) strongly wants to be right in his/her decisions - especially in those they've committed to. Not a big deal as long as each of us take that into consideration when listening to others opinions and experiences. Don't trust other peoples opinions - use your best judgement based upon what is important to you, using only objective facts. Other peoples "hype" really doesn't matter!
We think (justify) in terms that support our wants, needs, and desires. We devise arguments that agree with our opinion and experience. Today's American (others?) strongly wants to be right in his/her decisions - especially in those they've committed to. Not a big deal as long as each of us take that into consideration when listening to others opinions and experiences. Don't trust other peoples opinions - use your best judgement based upon what is important to you, using only objective facts. Other peoples "hype" really doesn't matter!
Scubadent
Guest
a generous helping of "hype" is generally (although not always) produced by a quality piece of equipment. On this board, those who have used a product and found it to be a beneficial addition to their gear will pass this information along to others who might be contemplating a purchase. "Hype" can be a good thing. It can steer you in a direction that you might not have previously investigated.
Case in point: If it were not for the nearly unending praises on this board for the backplate/wings setup, I can honestly say that I never would have researched this option. Today I am thrilled with my Halcyon plate/wings.
An Apeks or SP or Atomic reg owner who is passionate about their reg isnt biased but merely giving an opinion. Unless they use words like best, which shouldn't be used until they have tried all the brands in question.
Case in point: If it were not for the nearly unending praises on this board for the backplate/wings setup, I can honestly say that I never would have researched this option. Today I am thrilled with my Halcyon plate/wings.
An Apeks or SP or Atomic reg owner who is passionate about their reg isnt biased but merely giving an opinion. Unless they use words like best, which shouldn't be used until they have tried all the brands in question.
jhelmuth
Contributor
Scubadent - Given your open mind and reasonable approach, I think you have carefully weighed the information and used it to its best. I would point out that your choice ("Case in point:") was through the research (knowledge that it exists and that there was reason enough to believe that there was merit from experienced divers) - not the "hype" [you may insert the word of your choosing here] mostly from laymen (albeit experienced to wide degrees!) and the occasional professional. Obviously, when used with caution, "hype" [sic] can be useful!
I'm a firm believer in Apeks and SP. I dive Apeks.
My observation is that you can't make blanket statements about brand superiority. There's a big difference between a Geo Metro and a Cadillac.
I see no differences at the very top of performers amongst Apeks, Atomic, SP and several other brands. Sherwoods top of the line Maximus doesn't come close, neither does any Dacor.
At you procede down the model line to lower end regs things change. Apeks performance is consistently excellent through the whole line as is Atomic. SP lower end offerings don't offer the same features. In mid-high to low range Oceanic outperforms most for the same bucks. Mares line also performs well from top to bottom, but I don't like the ergonomics. Doesn't mean it's not a great performer.
Bottom line, I would choose a top of the line Apeks, SP or Atomics. If I was on a budget, I probably wouldn't go with an SP below the G250H. I could do better with some other brands. When all is said and done, the differences will be marginal anyway. A good regulator is a good regulator.
I can't find my answer in your list.
My observation is that you can't make blanket statements about brand superiority. There's a big difference between a Geo Metro and a Cadillac.
I see no differences at the very top of performers amongst Apeks, Atomic, SP and several other brands. Sherwoods top of the line Maximus doesn't come close, neither does any Dacor.
At you procede down the model line to lower end regs things change. Apeks performance is consistently excellent through the whole line as is Atomic. SP lower end offerings don't offer the same features. In mid-high to low range Oceanic outperforms most for the same bucks. Mares line also performs well from top to bottom, but I don't like the ergonomics. Doesn't mean it's not a great performer.
Bottom line, I would choose a top of the line Apeks, SP or Atomics. If I was on a budget, I probably wouldn't go with an SP below the G250H. I could do better with some other brands. When all is said and done, the differences will be marginal anyway. A good regulator is a good regulator.
I can't find my answer in your list.
Can't speak for Apeck's as I've never used one. I've found SCUBAPRO to be the most overrated equipment in the business. Its okay, but nothing special. I've had a few DACOR regs that I've really liked and I'm told the Posiden regs are pretty good too. In reality the dive shop or LDS as its commonly reffered to here will talk up what they sell. (no kidding). In my area we have one LDS that is sold on SHERWOOD, the K-Mart of scuba.
The good news is that its tough to go wrong these days as ALL the equipment is pretty good. Look for a dive shop that does a good job at SERVICING you stuff. Getting raped when you take it in for its annual tune up is not good and in the real world, thats what counts.
Jim
The good news is that its tough to go wrong these days as ALL the equipment is pretty good. Look for a dive shop that does a good job at SERVICING you stuff. Getting raped when you take it in for its annual tune up is not good and in the real world, thats what counts.
Jim
FastDen
Registered
Off subject here, but.... SwimJim, buddy, be careful about throwing the word "rape" around casually like you did here- it's a very serious word representing a terrifying, destructive, painful, life-altering event for anyone who's ever experienced it, or loves someone else who has. This is a public forum- think about who else may be reading your words, and the impact they might have. I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, and I'm sorry to be a scold, but the English language has plenty of alternatives to use describing getting a regulator serviced.
FastDen :rainbow:
FastDen :rainbow:
Similar threads
