Buying First Reg: Concerns with care / rinsing / servicing

[Nemrod]

The only thing freaking me out is getting parts, now that Aqualung took a dump because they got too big and too greedy.

Aqualung is still in business under new ownership. The parts and products supply issue is real and some of it can be blamed on the pandemonium and some on the issues leading up to AL (and Apeks) being sold off to the holding group they now belong to. None of it had to do with greed on AL's part. The Air Liquide and company had been sucking cash out of AL and then sold it off to the new ownership:

Breaking News – Another Scuba Diving Icon Sold - Scuba Legends

scuba-legends.com

And since that time of the sale parts and product have been difficult for some to get. Internal parts for most AL first stages are all basically the same and are available from other sources and NOS. Unfortunately the Trident black seat is not nearly as durable in use as is the genuine AL blue seat.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Regulator Care Tips

Do you find yourself paying more for service on your regs than you think you should? Does the tech say that it’s because of corrosion, silt, salt, sand, etc.? Are your regs seeming to need service due to the adjustment knobs/levers being stiff? Do the adjustments feel smooth, or are they gritty? Do you use the dunk tanks on the dock or boat to rinse your gear?
If the answers to any of these are yes, you may want to follow these regulator care tips.

1. DO NOT RELY ON DUNK TANKS FOR GEAR USED IN SALTWATER! Once a BC has been dropped in that tank, you are dunking it in saltwater unless it has a constant supply of FLOWING freshwater. Maybe even worse than what you just dived in. Take the reg back to your room, install the dust cap, drape it around your neck, and shower with it. Let the water run over the 1st stage and work the knobs on the second as you rinse them.

2. Do not rely on the dust cap to keep water out of the 1st stage. Unless it’s on a pressurized cylinder, the 1st stage should generally not be fully submerged and soaked.

3. If you don’t have a cylinder to pressurize the reg, put the dust cap on, drape the set around your neck back in your room, and take them into the shower with you. Allow the warm water to flow over the 1st and second stages. Then hang them to dry before packing them.

4. If they are DIN regs, take a slightly damp clean cloth and wipe the threads on the reg and the dust cap. Allow them to dry before putting the dust cap on. Next, take both of your second stages and rinse them in the sink or tub while working the levers and knobs. Do not store regs with DIN/YOKE adapters on them. For yoke regs, do not blow the cap dry with air from the tank! You can end up blowing water into the 1st stage and/or risk a pressure-related injury to your hand. You can inject an air bubble through the skin. Think of the needleless vaccine guns. Plus, it’s incredibly annoying to other divers and can actually affect hearing if opened too far.

5. Do not pack wet regs in luggage if at all possible. It’s too easy to forget them for a few days and later discover they are covered in salt residue and have started to corrode.

6. When you get home, fill the bathtub or sink with warm freshwater if you have a cylinder to hook them up to. Hook up the regs and pressurize them. Allow the regs to soak for a half-hour or so. Drain the sink or tub. Refill with fresh water and while soaking them, work the levers and knobs and swish them around. Drain the sink. Rinse the 1st and 2nd stages with fresh RUNNING water. Hang to dry before storing them. Do not hang them in direct sun. A cool, dry, ventilated space is best. A damp basement or garage is the worst place to store gear. Mold and mildew can degrade the fabrics and hoses and permit mold growth in the second stage that can be a health hazard.

7. If you don’t have a cylinder, follow the above steps in 6 without soaking or submerging the 1st stage. Do the seconds and rinse the 1st well under fresh running water with the dust cap installed. Dry as above.

 

[doctormike]

As I explained, 1st stages have exposed threads, i.e. threads that are not sealed by an external o-ring. Salt water creeps into these threads.

If you having trouble visualizing this, maybe an example of a DIN connection at the tank helps. The sealing o-ring is at the end of the threaded male fitting. Thus, the threads are exposed to water intrusion. The same situation exists to some degree in all first stages that I have ever seen.

Maybe you're familiar with the convertible 200bar DIN valves; they have a plug which screws in the DIN valve and allows a diver to use a yoke regulator on the tank. Those plugs seal exactly the same way as a DIN regulator does. Try leaving one of those in for multiple salt water dives over the course of a season, and then see what the threads look like when you remove it. It's not pretty!

Right, but if you are soaking the first stage with a DIN dust cap to keep water from entering the gas inlet , then the cap is covering those threads (or more) than the tank neck is. You are either exposing the threads to rinsing or you aren't. If it's a 300 bar regulator and a 200 bar tank valve, then you have exposed threads.

The threads under the conversion insert that you mentioned, on the other hand, aren't rinsed, which is why they get corroded.

If you leave your DIN regulator attached to the tank and run fresh water over it, the fresh water washes the same exposed threads that are exposed to salt water during the dive, right?

If you take it off and put a DIN dust cap on it to soak, then all of the threads are covered.

I mean, maybe I'm overthinking this, but it still seems to me that you need to flush the second stage more than the first stage. My Atomic regs do have an external pocket with for the IP adjustment valve which accumulates some water, but that's not in the gas flow like the inside of a second stage is.

 

[happy-diver]

The hot water gets between the reg and cap threads and the screwings of the cap also does the dislodgings

 

[doctormike]

The hot water gets between the reg and cap threads and the screwings of the cap also does the dislodgings

OK, if you think that's necessary.

I still think that as long as you don't let the salt water dry on the reg, rinsing wet seawater off of the exposed portion of the threads works (at least it has for me for decades). A reg part is either exposed to the water when attached to a tank or it isn't. And if it is, you can rinse off that salt water when it's wet.

 

[Nemrod]

I bring along a diluted spray bottle of Salt Off or Salt Away and I spray the regs down and then rinse either in the shower with me or if there is a sink. I may do a quick dip in a rinse bucket if it is a computer/regulator rinse bucket only. I also may bring a second small bottle and put a cap full in a sink for soaking.

The threads for the yoke/DIN adapter into the body of the first stage, I coat those liberally with silicone grease and if I think corrosion may be getting a foot hold, I remove the yoke/Din adapter aseembly and clean and regrease the threads as needed.


Camera equipment, computers and regulators go back to my room, cabin or whatever for special treatment, that equipment is not left hanging wet in a locker.

 

[halocline]

Right, but if you are soaking the first stage with a DIN dust cap to keep water from entering the gas inlet , then the cap is covering those threads (or more) than the tank neck is. You are either exposing the threads to rinsing or you aren't. If it's a 300 bar regulator and a 200 bar tank valve, then you have exposed threads.

The threads under the conversion insert that you mentioned, on the other hand, aren't rinsed, which is why they get corroded.

If you leave your DIN regulator attached to the tank and run fresh water over it, the fresh water washes the same exposed threads that are exposed to salt water during the dive, right?

If you take it off and put a DIN dust cap on it to soak, then all of the threads are covered.

I mean, maybe I'm overthinking this, but it still seems to me that you need to flush the second stage more than the first stage. My Atomic regs do have an external pocket with for the IP adjustment valve which accumulates some water, but that's not in the gas flow like the inside of a second stage is.

I’m afraid you’re not quite understanding what I mean by exposed threads. “Exposed” doesn’t mean “visible”. It means not sealed from the elements by an o-ring. When you attach a DIN reg to a tank, and submerge, water will penetrate the threads up until the o-ring at the end of the male DIN fitting. This is exactly what happens with a screw-on DIN dust cap; the same o-ring does the sealing.

Your atomic 1st stage has parts that screw together. (You can easily see this on a schematic.) Some of those threads are not protected by an o-ring external to the threads, as in the case of a port plug, for example. This means that water will seep in those threads during a dive. If it’s a salt water dive, then of course the seeped in water will have a high salt content, and if that salt water is allowed to remain in there until it evaporates, then salt deposits will remain. If, however, you soak the reg in clean fresh water, that water will also seep into the threads and ‘pull’ the salt out by dilution. Then when the clean water evaporates from those threads (that takes many hours as you might imagine) you won’t have the salt deposits.

 

[inquis]

If, however, you soak the reg in clean fresh water, that water will also seep into the threads and ‘pull’ the salt out

Username checks out, I'd listen close to this one.

 

[doctormike]

I’m afraid you’re not quite understanding what I mean by exposed threads. “Exposed” doesn’t mean “visible”. It means not sealed from the elements by an o-ring. When you attach a DIN reg to a tank, and submerge, water will penetrate the threads up until the o-ring at the end of the male DIN fitting. This is exactly what happens with a screw-on DIN dust cap; the same o-ring does the sealing.

No, I understand it fine. I was just saying that if the threads that are exposed to salt water during the dive are just as exposed to fresh water rinse after the dive. And if you do that before the salt water dries, you don't need prolonged soaking. I understand what the O-ring does.

Your atomic 1st stage has parts that screw together. (You can easily see this on a schematic.) Some of those threads are not protected by an o-ring external to the threads, as in the case of a port plug, for example. This means that water will seep in those threads during a dive. If it’s a salt water dive, then of course the seeped in water will have a high salt content, and if that salt water is allowed to remain in there until it evaporates, then salt deposits will remain. If, however, you soak the reg in clean fresh water, that water will also seep into the threads and ‘pull’ the salt out by dilution. Then when the clean water evaporates from those threads (that takes many hours as you might imagine) you won’t have the salt deposits.

Actually, I meant to say Apeks, not Atomic. I use Atomic for bailout. It's the Apeks regs that have the pocket for the IP adjustment, that tends to retain water.

Not sure what sort of port plugs you are referring to, but every one that I have ever used has the O-ring external to the threads, and there shouldn't be salt water getting to them. Same goes for hoses. The only threads that are exposed to salt water would be the DIN connection (they are outside of the O-ring), which we both agree get exposed to salt water and need to be cleaned.

So I still think that the best way of maintaining a first stage is to wash it in fresh water while attached to a tank. That way everything that was exposed to salt water will be flushed with fresh water. Don't see the need for prolonged unpressurized soaking after every dive.

 

[Nemrod]

Unlike many regulators today, even some from Scubapro, note that the lowly Mark 2 Evo has the DIN/Yoke adapter sealed by an O-ring above the threads.



Many first stages seal at the face and thus those threads are subject to saltwater flooding and corrosion. For example, the Mark 10:




Look at the Mark 5: