Buying First Reg: Concerns with care / rinsing / servicing

[Belzelbub]

Looking at likely Scubapro (possibly MK25), Atomic (possibly B2), or maybe an Apek / Aqualung. After much research and reading, I am beginning to weigh more how much forgiveness the equipment may have for care and service including rinsing.

Given the current financial state of Aqualung, I’d strike the AL and Apeks for now.

For second stages, It’s safest to soak pressurized. No danger of water traveling up the hoses to the 1st stage. This is especially important if you get Atomic. When not pressurized, the Seat Saver kicks in which could allow water to get to where it shouldn’t be.

For first stages, I can’t really offer much on your choices. I went with environmentally sealed diaphragm first stages. Diaphragms are easier to seal, so I just rinse well while the 2nds are soaking. Piston regs require a bit more diligence as non-sealed pistons have moving parts exposed to the environment.

 

[halocline]

1) Pressurize your reg when cleaning it after a dive - if you just soak it unpressurized, water can get into the hose, which you don't want.

2) Rinse the second stage with fresh water as soon as possible, within reason. …. Since there is no exposed opening on the first stage, a quick splash with fresh water should be enough for that, your SPG and your hoses..

I would like to rebut some of this. The idea that soaking a reg unpressurized will cause water intrusion is simply false. It’s one of these things that gets repeated on the internet on in dive shops, and I know from decades of experience working on regulators that it is false. All you need to prevent water from getting into the interior of the 1st stage (which is what we’re talking about) is a functional dust cap that seals. It’s very easy to check; simply install the dust cap and try to inhale; if the reg holds a vacuum (it should with a few exceptions) then water can’t get in. The exceptions are the few regulators that have a seat-saver function that separates the 2nd stage seat from the orifice. To my knowledge, that’s some Atomic 2nd stages and that’s about it.

Thee are exposed threads on virtually every 1st stage I have ever used or worked on. DIN/yoke retainers, HP seat retainers, body threads are all common spots. “Exposed” doesn’t mean you can see them, it means they are not sealed by an external o-ring. Salt water works it’s way into these threads, and if it is not removed it will dry and cause corrosion. The only way to remove it is to soak the 1st stage for enough time so that fresh water works it’s way in and dilutes the salt water through osmosis. I’ve seen the results of this practice hundreds of times on my own regulators and those of others I’ve worked on.

Even if you were to bump the purge and get a bit of water in one of the LP hoses, it’s a very easy thing to simply attach the reg to a tank after soaking and blow some air through it.

So soak away without fear.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

A Conshelf. I have seen Conshelfs from boat cleaners and commercial bailout bottles that made me want to puke when i opened up the second stage. Dove for years in horrible water, thrown in a milk crate at the end of the day, never rinsed. Perfect IP, no leaks, no freeflows. Cleaned up fine .... not much chrome but working great.

Regs are basic. It takes a lot to make them go bad.

I have two of those too.
The only diaphragm I like.

 

[inquis]

Atomic is a piston reg similar to Scubapro MK25 in design but they pack the innards of the first stage in the ambient chamber with goop, expensive goop.

It's user choice whether to get the B2 packed with goop (i.e., sealed) or unsealed (comparable to the MK25). You can also change your mind when serviced if you find your *actual* care was a little lacking. My last first stage service was $80 (parts, labor and goop).

 

[lexvil]

Know your gear, soak as mentioned with a good dust cap, with DIN you need a screw on cap the actually seals on the reg o ring, most do but some don’t.

A yoke can soak but the scubapro dust cap don’t seal, atomic and any other with a rubber cap are better and those foot SP Regs too.

Unsealed piston Regs (MK 25) and shore diving will eventually wear on the piston sealing services, great rinsing can slow it down, either way it takes years but it will happen.

Atomic and Zeagle F 8 second stages have very effective seat savers but as mentioned can allow water to intrude if soaked unpressurized. Piston firsts are largely unaffected even water gets in and will blow clear within a few puffs from a tank when mounted and purged, if salt water get in a service will be needed sooner.

My preference is the Zeagle F8 and or a scubapro MK 17.

I have experimented with both buying a new one and finding a deal on a used one, I dive the used if it passes the few pre dive checks, I’ve been using a MK 17 EVO bought off this board used and not serviced for the past 6 months, the new one comes with me and so far I’ve not had to use it.

I bought many newer diaphragms the perform flawlessly but few pistons don’t need at least a new seat and perhaps a touch up on the leading edge of the piston by the time they get sold.

Pay attention to rinsing and check the IP and you’ll really not need to worry much.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

All you need to prevent water from getting into the interior of the 1st stage (which is what we’re talking about) is a functional dust cap that seals. ... The exceptions are the few regulators that have a seat-saver function that separates the 2nd stage seat from the orifice. To my knowledge, that’s some Atomic 2nd stages and that’s about it.

Well ... A bunch of the Scubapro 2nd regs out there (at least my G260s) have a feature where you very slightly push in the purge button and turn it maybe 5 deg counterclockwise and it opens it for storage. That's not automatic like the AA, but it is there.

 

[inquis]

where you very slightly push in the purge button and turn it maybe 5 deg counterclockwise and it opens it for storage

I imagine one could do similar on most regs with a suitably sized block & bungee.

 

[USdiver1]

Well ... A bunch of the Scubapro 2nd regs out there (at least my G260s) have a feature where you very slightly push in the purge button and turn it maybe 5 deg counterclockwise and it opens it for storage. That's not automatic like the AA, but it is there.

Been a feature since at least the G250V, nice to have a seat saver.

In my commercial days I used USD Conshelf regulators, still love them as they are bulletproof. But I would recommend a SP Mk2 EVO with a G260 if you buy new and want 100% reliability.

 

[doctormike]

I would like to rebut some of this. The idea that soaking a reg unpressurized will cause water intrusion is simply false. It’s one of these things that gets repeated on the internet on in dive shops, and I know from decades of experience working on regulators that it is false. All you need to prevent water from getting into the interior of the 1st stage (which is what we’re talking about) is a functional dust cap that seals. It’s very easy to check; simply install the dust cap and try to inhale; if the reg holds a vacuum (it should with a few exceptions) then water can’t get in. The exceptions are the few regulators that have a seat-saver function that separates the 2nd stage seat from the orifice. To my knowledge, that’s some Atomic 2nd stages and that’s about it.

Thee are exposed threads on virtually every 1st stage I have ever used or worked on. DIN/yoke retainers, HP seat retainers, body threads are all common spots. “Exposed” doesn’t mean you can see them, it means they are not sealed by an external o-ring. Salt water works it’s way into these threads, and if it is not removed it will dry and cause corrosion. The only way to remove it is to soak the 1st stage for enough time so that fresh water works it’s way in and dilutes the salt water through osmosis. I’ve seen the results of this practice hundreds of times on my own regulators and those of others I’ve worked on.

Even if you were to bump the purge and get a bit of water in one of the LP hoses, it’s a very easy thing to simply attach the reg to a tank after soaking and blow some air through it.

So soak away without fear.

I defer to your experience!

But why do you need to soak the first stage at all, relying on the dust cap to keep it dry?

Don't you just want to get rid of salt water when it's wet and flush it out, avoiding drying and forming crystals? That's a second stage thing, right?

I can see the point of soaking the second stage if the salt water has dried, but I was talking about routine maintenance.

Unless you have removed the reg from the tank underwater, you just need a quick rinse of the outside of the first stage, right?

 

[Still Kicking]

I imagine one could do similar on most regs with a suitably sized block & bungee.

Or you could splurge on a bunch of seats and change them out if/when the reg starts bubbling.