Recreational Pony Bottles, completely unnecessary? Why or why not?

[Lorenzoid]

If when you say "a buddy" is a better trade-off than a pony for benign rec dive safety, you mean "a buddy well trained, practiced, attentive, and with muscle memory of the right responses", I'd agree.

If you mean "a random dive boat buddy who dives on one trip a year", I disagree.

Talking about the first (well trained, attentive and practiced buddy) when faced with a dive boat of the second (one trip a year divers) is pointless.

If you're not married to a dive buddy of the first type, you need to ask yourself do you want to dive in the Caribbean on vacation or not and what is the best trade-off for your safety?

"Buddy" means someone who meets the definition of what we were all taught a buddy does in our OW courses. Whatever the random person on the dive boat who dives once a year may be, such a person is not necessarily going to be a "buddy" to you. There are places to find good buddies. There are people on SB I'd dive with. I bet if I signed up for the ScubaBoard Invasion in Cozumel I could find a buddy. It's not THAT hard.

 

[MichaelMc]

"Buddy" means someone who meets the definition of what we were all taught a buddy does in our OW courses

The dive boat often uses 'buddy' with a different definition. As does insta-buddy. What if my, my parter's, our kids schedules and work do not all align with an invasion? There are reasonable alternatives for ensuring my safety on a convenient random dive boat, involving a little bit of extra luggage.

 

[Celt]

I find it amazing there are people here that think a buddy is better than a pony bottle....
A pony is attached to you, always there, buddies are human, prone to making mistakes, the argument that they should be there is not an assumption one should bet their life on. A redundant tank and reg, attached to you is something you can bet your life on.

SCUBA is the only sport I can think of where people typically participate without 100% reliable redundant life support items. (a buddy is not this) It's madness if you think about it, madness supported by the simple fact that SCUBA equipment, even crappie rentals are incredibly reliable and and fail to safe conditions are the overwhelmingly the norm. Pair that with the fact that most NDL dives can be aborted with an ascent that will not likely leave the diver seriously injured and you have enough reasoning for the industry to suggest that diving with a single life support system is actually a good idea. Don't anyone fool themselves into thinking a buddy is better insurance that actual hardware attached to your body.

I always dive with a redundant system, blue water gets a 13 cu ft pony, its barley noticeable and will work fine for NDL warm water diving emergencies. I can't say that NDL blue water diving absolutely requires a redundant air source, you can, after all, just dart to the surface in a worst case scenario (you'll live). But it sure seems to make sense to have a redundant supply to be able make a proper ascent while being calm and comfortable during that emergency.

My buddy can clear me of a fouling, he can bring me to the surface in a medical emergency, he can alert people on the surface, he can help with my gear, he can help me back in the boat if needed, he can haul the anchor drive the boat and make a cup of tea just to mention a few things a pony can’t do. And I like being with him.

 

[grf88]

My buddy can clear me of a fouling, he can bring me to the surface in a medical emergency, he can alert people on the surface, he can help with my gear, he can help me back in the boat if needed, he can haul the anchor drive the boat and make a cup of tea just to mention a few things a pony can’t do. And I like been with him.

Nobody on this thread has suggested you should not dive with a buddy but there have been several that have implied you should not dive with a pony. That is the issue.

 

[MichaelMc]

These are not the same:
- GUE level dive team (or divers) traveling and diving together
- My outstanding well trained buddy I always dive with and trust
- Good buddy like we were supposed to be trained to be
- Buddy as fellow diver in the water buddied with me

"A buddy is better" is very ambiguous between those.

"Good buddy provides more than just a pony" I agree with.
"Pony makes a good buddy bad" I disagree with.

 

[BoatingDave]

NAUI is often celebrating in these threads for allowing individual instructors to teach pretty much whatever they want in addition to the required standards. Unless someone can point to the existence of some sort of NAUI training manual from that era indicating that teaching pony bottles was standard, I will assume that this was a quirk of one instructor.

I can't say if all NAUI training required pony bottles back in 1994, but my instructors (it was a south Jersey dive shop) did require it. We carried them on our certification dives in Dutch Springs quarry.

Using pony for buddy separation scenario is normalization of deviance. We all learned what to do in our training for this scenario. It should not matter whether you have pony or octopus. I personally highly doubt that Naui had pony as mandatory equipment, it could be perhaps regional choice at that location/time. Pony brings economical, logistical challenges into the picture, thus it is much less common.
What is being discussed here is "social solo diving".

However, it was absolutely NOT to encourage buddy separation and the procedures were pretty straightforward. In an OOA situation you would always first work with your buddy. In the rare event the buddy was not there (I know you SHOULD be together) the pony served as a redundant emergency-only air supply to get you to the surface.

My recollection was the shop did a lot of wreck diving off the new jersey coast, so having a pony might have been standard for them.

 

[grf88]

Using pony for buddy separation scenario is normalization of deviance.

Bullfeathers

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Using pony for buddy separation scenario is normalization of deviance.

Or the acceptance of reality of this particular risk factor and mitigating it with a pony.

 

[boulderjohn]

Years ago I was a student in the UTD agency, and they did not endorse either carrying pony bottles or CESAs. As it was explained to me, diving with a buddy was pretty much sacred, and if you lost contact with a buddy (which they agreed was certainly possible), then the proper next step was to head for the surface. Thus, there would be no possibility for anyone to go out of air on a recreational dive, and thus there was no reason for either a pony or an emergency ascent procedure.

 

[CT-Rich]

These are not the same:
- GUE level dive team (or divers) traveling and diving together
- My outstanding well trained buddy I always dive with and trust
- Good buddy like we were supposed to be trained to be
- Buddy as fellow diver in the water buddied with me

"A buddy is better" is very ambiguous between those.

"Good buddy provides more than just a pony" I agree with.
"Pony makes a good buddy bad" I disagree with.

Ahhh, the buddy topic… what do I expect a buddy to be? Preferably cute, someone I can stabilize against while putting fins on. They should be someone I would enjoy spending a day on the water with. They can stay within a reasonable distance (I have no desire to explain why I lost them). They should be either competent or teachable. Correctly weighted is also nice(I hate waiting while they go back to the car for more lead).

I would rather dive alone than with a surf ninja I don’t like. I hold few illusions about them saving my ass, but know that they are my responsibility, to a degree. what isn’t on my list is being my back up air supply. My job #1 is to not need redundant air. I will happily help them with tangles and navigation and everything else. If they want to/can give me a hand when I need it, great. The best reason to have a buddy is to have a shared experience with good company, especially if she is pretty. Ponies are optional.