Question Redundant gas when traveling?

[rjack321]

I almost exclusively dive back mounted doubles here in Norway, and when I went to Dahab last year I was able to rent doubles, but many places in the world that's going to be tricky. I would prefer having redundant gas and regs in the 60-100ft range, especially when diving with random buddies and groups I can't necessarily rely on in case of a failure.

Don't use gear to solve a people problem. Go on trips with people you trust. To be honest, the risk of some rando coming up to you OOA is remote compared to the risk of someone getting lost, bent, or drowning and ruining your vacation despite you not being directly involved.

Go on trips with friends and groups you trust.

 

[steinbil]

Don't use gear to solve a people problem. Go on trips with people you trust. To be honest, the risk of some rando coming up to you OOA is remote compared to the risk of someone getting lost, bent, or drowning and ruining your vacation despite you not being directly involved.

Go on trips with friends and groups you trust.

Yeah, I generally try to go with people/groups I trust, and those are more fun dives. I'm just trying to think how I would approach it if I happened to be in a destination with good diving while on a family holiday or something like that. I would like to be able to do some easy fun dives where ever I happen to be. Until now, the only dives I've done like in this way have been shallow reef dives where I feel comfortable with a single tank and no redundancy. I guess one option is keeping that limitation. Last time I did that in Greece was a train wreck of a group, though. Not my favorite kind of diving. But I still prefer it to not getting in the water. Dilemmas...

 

[tbone1004]

Yeah, I generally try to go with people/groups I trust, and those are more fun dives. I'm just trying to think how I would approach it if I happened to be in a destination with good diving while on a family holiday or something like that. I would like to be able to do some easy fun dives where ever I happen to be. Until now, the only dives I've done like in this way have been shallow reef dives where I feel comfortable with a single tank and no redundancy. I guess one option is keeping that limitation. Last time I did that in Greece was a train wreck of a group, though. Not my favorite kind of diving. But I still prefer it to not getting in the water. Dilemmas...

it is easy enough to bring a stage regulator, that Dive Rite kit that I linked, and putting a sliding loop bungee on the left side of your harness. It is easy enough to slip the kit on with a stage regulator as your "second" tank for the boat and just carry both of them at the same time. The reg and stage kit can easily stay in your regulator bag on the boat and with the bungee loop sliding down to the hip you can make that judgement call between dives if you have to.

 

[MB NZ]

On the Red Sea liveaboard I did in August, I was the only person apart from one guide using a redundant gas source. Clearly I was the freak! For the record, it was a side slung 3L pony. As someone who has pretty much only solo dived for the last decade, I would have felt uncomfortable without it. Probably overkill. That said, we did a relatively challenging wreck penetration following the guide like sheep. I was quite pleased I had it then as using a buddy's octopus in some of the tight spots would have been very difficult.

As for practical issues, I took the pony regulator and a homemade sling kit and hired the cylinder.

EDIT: To the OP, I'm not sure how you are defining a pony cylinder versus stage cylinder in your question? I suspect you are referring to the size of cylinder rather than anything else. I wouldn't get too wrapped up in what you call the cylinder. It just needs to be a cylinder that will hold enough gas to get you to the surface safely in the event of an emergency.

 

[VikingDives]

- PITA on boats
- need 2 bottles for every dive
- need to get right-handed valve bottles (how?)
- need comprehensive training
- need extra gear (unless that's all you dive)

Since you dive doubles, you could just swap/add spgs. Life will be easier if you have swivels on your first stages.

You don't necessarily "need" two bottles in sidemount (see monkey diving) but that kind of kills the redundancy. It is possible to dive with a smaller and a larger tank. You could also just use left handed valves. Not something I'd want to do in an overhead, but for recreational open water diving I wouldn't say it's that big a deal.

I agree on the training, I'd recommend a good tech sidemount course. I'm sure that there are good recreational courses and instructors out there, but...

Sidemount is a pita when it comes to getting geared up, but be forewarned that you may want to stay on the dark side

 

[FishWatcher747]

Go on trips with people you trust.

I trust my Pony more than other divers. It always shows up, keeps up, and doesn't complain.

 

[MyBuddy]

Pony bottle
+ reserve gas (for one diver)
+ smaller/lighter
+ compatible with recreational gear
- need to buy a pony
- need to travel with tank
- possibly higher risk of failure if its not used/tested on every dive

Sidemount
+ full redundancy
+ no need to travel with tank
+ balance in the water
+/- one less second stage
- PITA on boats
- need 2 bottles for every dive
- need to get right-handed valve bottles (how?)
- need comprehensive training
- need extra gear (unless that's all you dive)

Single tank + stage
+ full redundancy with two regs on reserve gas
+ compatible with recreational gear
+ only need 1 extra tank for a whole trip
+ no travel with tank, just a stage rigging kit
+ no other purchases/gear necessary
- slightly more to handle on boat than pony (less than sidemount)

Other than ponies often being smaller bottles, the main difference between a pony and a stage is how you use them. If you’re slinging them I wouldn’t rig them any differently.

A pony is not part of the gas plan and is only there as a back up in case of emergencies. You should also be checking its operation prior to the dive so it should be no more prone to failure.

A stage is part of the gas plan and may be used during the dive. I also would not put a second 2nd stage on a stage. That would be too much clutter and unnecessary.

As far as your sidemount points:

• If you are reasonably competent in sidemount, neither my wife (who’s half my size) not I see it being a PITA on boats/RIHBs. Though it is more fidgety in general.
• Having left and right handed valves are a nice to have but aren’t required for recreational dives. The bungee can be looped over the burst disk nub or the valve wheel.
• Depending on the dives you’re doing you’re likely not talking two full tanks on every single dive. If you’re doing the typical two dive charter you’ll use 2300-2500psi between the two tanks on the first dive leaving 3700-3500psi. Then 2300-2500 on the second dive leaving 700-500psi in each tank. Granted there is not as much of a buffer compared to carrying a bottle you’re not going to touch except in an emergency but it’s definitely a more conservative way to dive.
• You’re not paying to rent a tank you’re not going to use.
• The side mount BCs can be much more travel friendly than the typical jacket style BC.

I would breathe the primary reg on the back mounted bottle to splash. Check the necklace is breathing ok. Then switch to the stage for the entire dive, keeping the back gas for emergencies and gas sharing with other divers.

So with breathing your back gas to get in the water and using it to inflate your BC I’d expect that you’d want to get it topped up, presumably for a cost, depending on how many dives you were doing.

If only AL80s were available at a location and I only had a back mount rig, I’d just sling one as a pony. Or you could give side mount a go. It’s a nice tool to have in the toolbox.

 

[grantmac]

I had forgotten to mention that sidemount BCDs used in tropical areas (Xdeep Classic etc) are by far the most miniscule form of BCD other than just not using one. Two plates, some webbing and a wing which detaches. They have so little fabric that I'm able to dive several Kg less weight compared to a jacket (2mm full suite with 2xAL80s I'm using 2-3kg and I'm a bit chubby).
You can walk tanks into the water with them, or just carry tanks one at a time and put them on in the shallows (super easy). You can also just leave the BCD on between dives while changing tanks. For single tank dives I just swap the left and breath enough out of the right to know it's working. I tidy up the long hose on the safety stop and exit with it tucked into the bands.
If you're really tired getting into the boat you can pass a tank up easily, or clip it to a line.

For every bit of fiddliness that other people seem to find I find another aspect which is easier to manage compared to backmount, especially doubles (which I dive for work).

 

[steinbil]

EDIT: To the OP, I'm not sure how you are defining a pony cylinder versus stage cylinder in your question? I suspect you are referring to the size of cylinder rather than anything else. I wouldn't get too wrapped up in what you call the cylinder. It just needs to be a cylinder that will hold enough gas to get you to the surface safely in the event of an emergency.

As far as I know the biggest difference is in the way the tank is used:
- Ponies are only for emergencies / Stages are used on the dive

Also:
- Ponies are generally smaller
- Stages are always slung

 

[steinbil]

So with breathing your back gas to get in the water and using it to inflate your BC I’d expect that you’d want to get it topped up, presumably for a cost, depending on how many dives you were doing.

I'd be happy with 40cuft for a failure at 100ft, so an AL80 should be good for quite a few dives.