Recreational Pony Bottles, completely unnecessary? Why or why not?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Years ago I was a student in the UTD agency, and they did not endorse either carrying pony bottles or CESAs. As it was explained to me, diving with a buddy was pretty much sacred, and if you lost contact with a buddy (which they agreed was certainly possible), then the proper next step was to head for the surface. Thus, there would be no possibility for anyone to go out of air on a recreational dive, and thus there was no reason for either a pony or an emergency ascent procedure.

I just shake my head at that premise (which may be why @Hartattack stirred the pot with starting this post). A couple years ago, some highly trained GUE (T2/C2) divers got separated and each entangled with their own DSMB lines. A doc file was written up about it, but for the life of me I cannot find it. Now they were task loaded with scooter and high current (this is the Puget Sound after all), but one of the lessons that I took from it, given I am not trained at the level of either of those divers, if they can get separated from their buddy, then I certainly can be as well. It would be stupidly arrogant to think that it won't happen to me. I think I have a realistic understanding of my skill level. It isn't the best, so I better pay attention to those who have incidents that are better divers than me.

 

[Lorenzoid]

The dive boat often uses 'buddy' with a different definition. As does insta-buddy. What if my, my parter's, our kids schedules and work do not all align with an invasion? There are reasonable alternatives for ensuring my safety on a convenient random dive boat, involving a little bit of extra luggage.

Dive boat crews don't create the definitions, training agencies do. We as the dive community can try to use terms more carefully to help preserve some of the original meaning. Granted, words sometimes morph over time, but for something as important as a "dive buddy" I would do my best to use the term as I was taught. The term "insta-buddy" is a pejorative term for someone who really doesn't fit the definition of a buddy. It's poking fun at how the buddy system gets ignored in the real world. It doesn't have to be like that.

I dive with my wife, friends, and people I know from previous trips, and then there is the prospect of online sources for dive buddies like SB, I suppose. Sometimes I wish we had a club system like they do over in the UK. I haven't done the insta-buddy thing on a dive boat in at least 10 years, probably longer. You probably dive much more frequently than I do, because I just won't dive if it means being paired up with someone I know nothing about. Diving isn't worth that to me. I have other hobbies. If there were a particular dive I wanted to do, I suppose I would look for a buddy well in advance and find a date convenient for us. It may take some time and effort. I will be fully retired in a few years, and if I want to engage more with this hobby I will have to exert more effort to find dive buddies. If I really felt like I was going to explode if I didn't dive more frequently, I suppose I would learn to solo dive and use whatever system that entails. I don't believe I would go the solo route, though, due to concerns over increased risk from age/health.

 

[scubaozy]

If you are not able to sort out significant mismatch on diving goals with your insta-buddy within first dive, you are doing something wrong. If my buddy is swimming off and ignoring my signals, so what, I will tail another buddy team and try to stay close to them also signaling them that I am joining in. At the surface, I will ask to join to another person or team. If there is a guide, I will ask for a different team assignment. It is then the dive guides problem to sort out the crappy dive buddy.
If there is a huge mismatch in diving skills that you feel other diver is a total beginner, same as above applies. You signal the guide and join to another team, you make this the guides problem. This is so simple, cheap and effective.
If you are failing all of the above, you are actually accepting the deviation; you are carrying a pony is just a defense of you failing to be a safe diver and ignoring the risks that these divers may cause to you or to others and themselves.

 

[BoltSnap]

I can't say if all NAUI training required pony bottles back in 1994, but my instructors (it was a south Jersey dive shop) did require it. We carried them on our certification dives in Dutch Springs quarry.

NAUI NEVER did require teaching the use of pony bottles or their use in entry level training at all. It is a local thing. Use of pony bottles in NY/NJ diving was almost a standard due to local conditions but not everyone required it, I didn't in entry level training.

 

[BoltSnap]

NAUI is often celebrating in these threads for allowing individual instructors to teach pretty much whatever they want in addition to the required standards.

"teach pretty much whatever they want" is an exageration here. NAUI allows you to add more training and knowldge that is relavent and SAFE to the respective course but not to violate standards and put students in jeopardy. No matter what, I could not take entry level students to 30 or 40 meters or make them jump out of helicopter into the water for example. It had to be reasonable and relevant to the course level.

 

[grf88]

If you are not able to sort out significant mismatch on diving goals with your insta-buddy within first dive, you are doing something wrong. If my buddy is swimming off and ignoring my signals, so what, I will tail another buddy team and try to stay close to them also signaling them that I am joining in. At the surface, I will ask to join to another person or team. If there is a guide, I will ask for a different team assignment. It is then the dive guides problem to sort out the crappy dive buddy.
If there is a huge mismatch in diving skills that you feel other diver is a total beginner, same as above applies. You signal the guide and join to another team, you make this the guides problem. This is so simple, cheap and effective.
If you are failing all of the above, you are actually accepting the deviation; you are carrying a pony is just a defense of you failing to be a safe diver and ignoring the risks that these divers may cause to you or to others and themselves.

Do you actually read the balderdash that you write. What you are telling us now is that although the buddy system is sacred to you the first thing you would do if you don't get along with your buddy is to abandon him and join up with another group.

 

[scubaozy]

Do you actually read the balderdash that you write. What you are telling us now is that although the buddy system is sacred to you the first thing you would do if you don't get along with your buddy is to abandon him and join up with another group.

Meh, as usual, you are bending it as you please. No one can force another diver to follow the dive plan nor following safe diving practices. Buddy system works if all parties keep with the rules.

 

[grf88]

Meh, as usual, you are bending it as you please. No one can force another diver to follow the dive plan nor following safe diving practices. Buddy system works if all parties keep with the rules.

QED. That is why many people choose pony bottles as a safe redundant supply rather than the air on somebody else's back. Thanks for finally demonstrating that a pony bottle has it's place.

 

[scubaozy]

QED. That is why many people choose pony bottles as a safe redundant supply rather than the air on somebody else's back. Thanks for finally demonstrating that a pony bottle has it's place.

Except I solved the problem without carrying a pony.

 

[CT-Rich]

Meh, as usual, you are bending it as you please. No one can force another diver to follow the dive plan nor following safe diving practices. Buddy system works if all parties keep AGREE with the rules.

The scuba cops don’t carry guns. If you get in the water without a clear agreement and swim off to hook-up with someone else, that makes you the bad buddy, pretty much regardless of what the other diver does.

PADI and NAUI aren’t your dive buddies.