Recreational Pony Bottles, completely unnecessary? Why or why not?
- Thread starter Hartattack
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Don’t disagree. But that nicely makes the case for redundant gas.
Haven’t dived with ditchable weights since AOW days nigh on a decade ago. Nor have ever run out of gas.
I did loose the wing/BCD once when the dump valve decided to fall off, on the surface as it happens. No problems though as the drysuit was the reserve or I’d just remain vertical to keep the wing full. No ditchable weight means I dive neutral, just heavy for the gas weight in the cylinders & bailouts.
I don't think anyone would argue that a pony replaces a good buddy. Solo diving is a whole other discussion / discipline.
You are correct, the instant you become separated from your buddy your risk increases significantly. Having an independent gas supply mitigates one of those risks.
A pony is not suitable at 40m when you have decompression stops. At 25m it is likely that it is all that is required to get you safely back to the surface, having completed any and all decompression requirements.
Even when a pony is insufficient (aka 40m), it does give you 'time', to get to your buddy and use their AAS.
What is interesting, in a lot of cases, if you are "at work" in the UK, you are required to have a pony (or independent AAS). Even 'sat' diving on surface supply with standby divers, divers are still required to wear a smaller OC set.
We attempt to mitigate any perceived risk / failure. AAS (Octopus) are now routinely carried by 99% of recreational divers. When I started buddy breathing was the solution to gas failure/problems. All training agencies require an AAS and it is a core part of diver training. The AAS has replaced buddy breathing, not because buddy breathing does not work. But because there are associated risks with buddy breathing that an AAS immediately mitigates. A pony (or twinset) mitigates risks associated with relying on a buddy and their AAS.
I predominantly dive in the UK. Visibility can be any thing from 15m+ to 15mm. Sometimes on the same dive. Having an independent AAS makes sense. When I have an immediate gas problem, I have immediate gas solution.
I tend to dive with a camera. Buddy separation is a constant concern. In many ways, if they are carrying a camera the risk is even higher. In the UK, all of the photographers I have dived with prefer to dive with an independent gas supply. We may loose contact with each other, but the objective is to stay together, it enhances both our safety and enjoyment. Most of my diving is club based, you cannot solo dive, if you do, you don't dive with the club!
The big problem, is any activate that increases task loading increase the risk of both diver separation and gas / time issues. That includes adverse conditions, photography, marine life survey, wreck penetration, navigation etc.
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Buddy diver over your own independent air supply
I'd rather put my hand up for an arranged marriage
to a guy
Trained to dive by fearful mongerers one day at a time for the rest of your lives
I'd rather put my hand up for an arranged marriage
to a guy
Trained to dive by fearful mongerers one day at a time for the rest of your lives
The answer to buddy separation in recreational diving is to surface not continue with the dive, if you’re planning on diving solo in the case of separation you need to tell others on the dive that that’s what you intend. A commercial diver on surface supply with hat and bailout has a standby on the surface and there on coms. The bailout is for a failure of the surface supply as the diver may not have access to the surface. A recreational diver should always be able to surface and stay with a buddy. If that’s not the intention then they should dive solo and train and equip for solo diving.
BoatingDave
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Interestingly, when I first certified, NAUI (back in 1994) we were taught to use a pony bottle and had to carry them on rec dives. It was for emergencies, not to extend a dive, and only if you were somehow separated from your buddy and their octo! After not diving for many years I recertified with my son with PADI, and was surprised that we didn’t use a pony. I guess it’s what you are used to and what you have learned.
In my opinion, the need for a pony varies with the type of dive.
Even a novice, with just a few dives under his belt may want to have a small one, if the primary gear he uses is rental gear, & therefore of unknown history. Here, something like a spare air might be a reasonable choice. It can get you to the surface if your main gear fails & it is easy to carry. For me, this is a consideration when I travel far from home & may not want to lug all my own gear along for the ride. A spare air packs pretty easily.
When diving in places where you want to extend your bottom time past what your primary tank is capable of providing & NDL is not an issue, like lobster diving in 30’ of water, a second tank may be considered part of your original gas plan & may be called something other than a pony. Before I had large capacity steel tanks, I would carry a 30 or 40 along with my 80, when lobster diving. I had a predetermined PSI in my primary tank at which I would change over to my secondary.
If you are diving in very cold water & regulator icing is a concern, then a redundant system would seem to make sense.
A pony is also nice to have if you dive with a problem child of a dive buddy who you think is likely to need emergency air from you. Being able to hand off the entire pony system to them leaves you more freedom of motion to do you need to do, compared to being tethered by an octopus. Knowingly diving with a problem child can be considered bad planning. Getting paired up with an unknown on a dive boat is a roll of the dice & may put you in that situation.
Obviously, for advanced diving in hazardous locations, a complete redundant system makes sense.
I sometimes carry only a pony if I am doing a quick dive to free a stuck anchor or retrieve lost gear. In that case, I guess that it would be properly referred to as a small primary tank, rather than a pony.
If I am doing a hard bottom, open water dives, at depths where I can do a free assent easily, I don't ever bother with a pony & usually don't even bring a computer.
Even a novice, with just a few dives under his belt may want to have a small one, if the primary gear he uses is rental gear, & therefore of unknown history. Here, something like a spare air might be a reasonable choice. It can get you to the surface if your main gear fails & it is easy to carry. For me, this is a consideration when I travel far from home & may not want to lug all my own gear along for the ride. A spare air packs pretty easily.
When diving in places where you want to extend your bottom time past what your primary tank is capable of providing & NDL is not an issue, like lobster diving in 30’ of water, a second tank may be considered part of your original gas plan & may be called something other than a pony. Before I had large capacity steel tanks, I would carry a 30 or 40 along with my 80, when lobster diving. I had a predetermined PSI in my primary tank at which I would change over to my secondary.
If you are diving in very cold water & regulator icing is a concern, then a redundant system would seem to make sense.
A pony is also nice to have if you dive with a problem child of a dive buddy who you think is likely to need emergency air from you. Being able to hand off the entire pony system to them leaves you more freedom of motion to do you need to do, compared to being tethered by an octopus. Knowingly diving with a problem child can be considered bad planning. Getting paired up with an unknown on a dive boat is a roll of the dice & may put you in that situation.
Obviously, for advanced diving in hazardous locations, a complete redundant system makes sense.
I sometimes carry only a pony if I am doing a quick dive to free a stuck anchor or retrieve lost gear. In that case, I guess that it would be properly referred to as a small primary tank, rather than a pony.
If I am doing a hard bottom, open water dives, at depths where I can do a free assent easily, I don't ever bother with a pony & usually don't even bring a computer.
Interesting. PADI's philosophy seems to be to make diving as accessible to the masses as possible. Asking every newly certified diver to buy and use a pony bottle, and encouraging dive centers around the world to rent pony bottles as part of their standard package, all so that the pony would be there at the ready in the rare case of buddy separation, seems a lot more burdensome than instilling good buddy practices. The 800-pound gorilla of dive training known as PADI may be an easy target for derision, but their system does seem to be sufficient to keep the vast majority of people who consider themselves to be PADI divers safe. I can take off my Captain Obvious cape now.
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