Reality...Just Asking

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Cacia

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I just read the whole SG thing. I want to ask you what percentage of divers you think lightly penetrate the Sea Tiger or YO257?

In general, the groups you see....day after day

I am guessing 10% ?

Al 80's, less than 100 dives...I am "speculating"

Not judging, just surveying what you guys observe out there.
 
Yes. And some not so "lightly" as you put it....imho a disaster waiting to happen...I can't tell you how many times I have been in a "Sea Tiger" or similar ... "light" (no such thing) wreck (i.e Yukon, Ruby E...etc) and get into a silt out situation--a very scary experience even *if* you are running line (which you should damnit).

I too often see untrained divers penetrating the sea tiger...without running a line...why? Probably because they either 1) weren't taught/told any better, and 2) they just choose to ignore the training/mentoring they received.

Just the other day I saw 2 yahoos enter the Sea Tiger, Al 80...no line and no it was *not* light penetration (ie...not a swim through...more like "hey lets go to the engine room...and then some"). And oh by the way they dove off a charter boat...which would lead me to believe that their brieifing included "don't be stupid and penetrate unless qualified/experienced"

So my guess....~7.6% of the total population diving these wrecks that do not have proper experience or training in wreck penetration.

I could go on and on but I'll get off my soap box now....flame away.
 
I did notice that the wrecks act as giant seives and filters for the current particulate. That fish hold down below has a much finer silt. I guess the deeper you go, the more the silt out variable comes in to play?

Why are they all over there talking about a safety diver waiting outside the wreck? That question never really got answered....I never even heard of that before.

I am guessing upward of 5%, for sure.

DSC_0089-1.jpg
 
TDS has better info on that incident then SB (no I am not knocking SB, just in this case there is some more detailed information on thedecostop.com).
 
Hey Island Girl . . .wake-up call: 'bout time you get some serious Doubles and Wreck Training now. . .
 
well, there are certainly more options now

I am learning to feedive right now.

One thing at a time, please.

I do want to take some pictures of techies though, the fish eye is getting a slow start, dome issues.

I wonder why people get really upset if divers exceed their training but not about "other stuff"...surfing, for example. The psychology fascinates me.

The same guy will go out and try to surf in pounding waves, in a shore break at Sandy's and it's totally accepted. I swam at Waemea the other day and almost died just getting out....it's like some dangers are kosher and some aren't...

getting in was easy...you time it, getting out, I was being sucked back in and the power of a wave could have snapped my neck with the force against the sand. yikes, wake-up
 
IMHO, Makaha Caverns with mild surge is no less dangerous than the typical minor penetrations common at the Sea Tiger and YO-257. Drew's fired video light operator on the San Pedro seems a little more dangerous, as he seemed ready to bolt! I regularly penetrate both the hull and house of the St. Anthony (South Maui) with only OW trained guests. Before the wall fell in on the Mahi, more than half my guests followed me through the companionway.

As a guide on Oahu, I almost always led my groups through the v cavern at Makaha, the open double hold on the 'Tiger and a port to starboard below deck swimthrough at the YO. The pre-dive briefing encourages divers to say no if uncomfortable and meet us at the exit. Everything I've mentioned is typically no more than a minute inside and even divers with no overhead training have little trouble. I'm guessing Catherines Q concers tighter entries, corners &/or stairwells and possibly even tighter exits, but were still talking just a few minutes so non-hoovers have plenty of air on a single 80. For all these dives, strong current $/or surge should limit or negate all such activities.

My typical guided dives at Shark's Cove or Three Tables spend way more time in overhead environs than any agency would publically condone for OW divers, but those same agencies non-overhead certified employees would want to do those dives again and again after being there with most knowledgable North Shore guides! I'm sure Sherman considers statements like these ignorant and dangerous, but how many accidents have happened on these common and typically guided Oahu dives?

Face it, part of the excitement of diving is that it's an alien environment and if poo hits fan you can get hurt/die. A small swim through only stops a small percentage of divers. I became an instructor in Key Largo (before SG) and my CD did non-reel penetration of the Duane as part of my Wreck Specialty Instructor cert (not mandatory, lame classmates did not). I later similarly penetrated the Bibb with another of the IDC instructors (identical passageways, sideways). I'm not saying this is all right or even standards, but I think it's way more than 10% lightly penetrating the Tiger and YO.
 
I don't consider any statements ignorant :) Everyone has to make up their mind what works for *them*...as long as they are educated on the dangers their actions have and all possible ways to mitigate them. If they choose to use these tools/methods to mitigate risk great...if not well that is their decision. What works for me, may not work for others. It's the education piece that I am more worried about than anything else.
 
On a side note.....

Baby Barge is starting to really tear up. If you guys have dived it, you know it is oriented so that the surge can really be an issue. Yes, there is a W I D E opening on the star. stern, and YES, novice divers can usually go in with little chance of encountering a hazard, but IMHO I think it is unsafe to swim within 5 feet of any of the cut-outs if there is surge present.

2 years of diving Baby Barge for me and she's starting to become a lil more hazardous everytime I am out there.

Just my two cents..... later, I'm going diving.

G
 
Halemano,

I agree with Sherman on most of your comments, but I would ask why take the stance to call classmates "lame" if they choose not to do something that maybe involved more risk that "they" were comfortable with? That kind of decision, at least to me, is the kind of decsion that I as a diver should be willing and able to make for myself. That doesn't make me "lame" that makes me a better diver.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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