Reality...Just Asking

[mrjimboalaska]

oh, and fishboy.......:furious:.....i know what you mean.........

 

[PacketSniffer]

I did notice that the wrecks act as giant seives and filters for the current particulate. That fish hold down below has a much finer silt. I guess the deeper you go, the more the silt out variable comes in to play?

Many of the non-focused recreational divers that enter wrecks lack proper finning technique for tight wreck penetration. It doesn't take long to silt out a corridor or room and then you're all turned around especially if you don't have a guide line. I don't believe that there is such a thing as "the deeper you go, the more silt." Each wreck has its own characteristics plus the local environment.

Why are they all over there talking about a safety diver waiting outside the wreck? That question never really got answered....I never even heard of that before.

I understand from the survivor's notes that he did actually enter the wreck along with the three others. It was reported wrong that he stayed outside the wreck. So, forget the safety diver thing. It's not normally done. I don't see how a safety diver would be useful on a wreck penetration dive unless he's making sure that gas swtiches are performed correctly for decompression once out of the wreck. It would usually be a serious dive (big depth and penetration) though.

 

[Cacia]

Catherine, please let us know what constitutes lightly.



Roger that. Seems like my Intro to Cave was 7' alternate.

Well, I was trying to no be too inflammatory...

Actually, people go into the bridge all the time.

I have been to the engine room and under the grate to the fish holds, which is not a good idea unless you really have thought it through, but I felt I was safe and that I had planned. I was with a Navy tech guy and was confident that we had ourselves sorted out. Personally, I think it is up to each person to make the call but I realize this is not the party line.

I just brought it up to discuss, because, these wrecks are penetrated all the time, from what I see. It's like there are two worlds...the ideal one that is discussed here and then the realaity of what is actually happening.

 

[Kevrumbo]

What's that max depth under the grate to the fish holds in the Sea Tiger . . .say 120'?
I figure that's about 5 to 8min. bottom time before you hit your Minimum Gas Reserve, or "Rock Bottom" for that depth (NDL is 10min.) . . .on a single AL80 air mix. What was your ascent profile (i.e. multi-level?) and did your computer go into Deco? And how did you feel afterwards on the surface?

 

[Cacia]

I went in with a guy who wanted to explore the hallways, past the statue. First I said maybe...."we will see if I feel like it". I said no, once I got down there, I knew that would be pushing it. I like saying no, it's good practice. Yes, about 120. I was on air and got into a few minutes of deco on my Suunto. We came back with 800 pounds. (mostly because I will burn it up on the last stop, no reason not too after pushing the limits) I doubt I will ever crawl under the grate again. I just really needed to see what was down there, the curiosity factor. I am just putting it out there that some people cannot stop themselves. It was a major thrill, to be perfectly honest. If I went with a team, two huge lights, an extra mask, lines, two tanks...Tri-mix, a clear head, I am not sure it would be my own little personal thrill. I am okay with others saying it is stupid. I would not tell anyone to go into a wreck. I don't even tell people to dive.

For me to figure out how to do the dive, to NOT take a class, NOT pay an Instructor, to choose who I would do it WITH, was a big personal victory for me.

Being in a tight space once going to the engine room, and having two divers crawl over me and not come out of my skin was a major accomplishment for me. I coped, I knew I better. I was up against the wall of panic and I prayed, pulled out all the mental tricks I have just to stay calm. My heart was thumping against my sternum. I closed my eyes. Next time, I will probably be better at controling my mind, having experienced it. I can take this and apply it to other things.

Hey, I am a big chicken. I was afraid to dive the other day, the high winds and rough surface just flat pyched me out. The thought of getting out of my gear in the water was making my mind trip. I asked a couple of fellow divers to stay topside and wait for us...I am always assesssing the danger.

If I ever die (when I die), I am perfectly fine with people saying it was my own damn fault.

The next thing I want to do is cross the channel by myself. Guys do it all the time, everyday, it is no big deal. But, for me..to be out there in the middle, doing it myself will be major, because I am a wuss! I know it will give me a rush and make me feel puffed up.

There are a lot of divers who think like this. They are more likely to say they are into wife-swapping than to admit it though. Why?

It is taboo.

The out of shape guy with a desk job who works everyday 9-5 supporting his family and being bored out of his mind, finally gets a trip to Hawaii and if he gets a big thrill from sticking his head into the bridge of the YO and then, in a burst of faith in himself, swims around a bit --I am all for it. I want to bring people like me out of the closet. They can decide for themself what their soul needs.

 

[ScubaAndDreams]

I went in with a guy who wanted to explore the hallways, past the statue. First I said maybe...."we will see if I feel like it". I said no, once I got down there, I knew that would be pushing it. I like saying no, it's good practice. Yes, about 120. I was on air and got into a few minutes of deco on my Suunto. We came back with 800 pounds. I doubt I will ever crawl under the grate again. I just really needed to see what was down there, the curiosity factor. I am just putting it out there that some people cannot stop themselves. It was a major thrill, to be perfectly honest. If I went with a team, two huge lights, an extra mask, lines, two tanks...Tri-mix, a clear head, I am not sure it would be my own little personal thrill. I am okay with others saying it is stupid. I would not tell anyone to go into a wreck. I don't even tell people to dive.

For me to figure out how to do the dive, to NOT take a class, NOT pay an Instructor, to choose who I would do it WITH, was a big personal victory for me. Being in a tight space once and having two divers crawl over me (major miscalculation on my part), and not come out of my skin was a major accomplishment for me. I coped, I knew I better. I was up against the wall of panic and I prayed, pulled out all the mental tricks I have just to stay calm. My heart was thumping against my sternum. I closed my eyes. Next time, I will probably be better at controling my mind, having experienced it. I can take this and apply it to other things.

Hey, I am a big chicken. I was afraid to dive the other day, the high winds and rough surface just flat pyched me out. The thought of getting out of my gear in the water was making my mind trip. I asked a couple of fellow divers to stay topside and wait for us...I am always assesssing the danger.

If I ever die (when I die), I am perfectly fine with people saying it was my own damn fault.

The next thing I want to do is cross the channel by myself. Guys do it all the time, everyday, it is no big deal. But, for me..to be out there in the middle, doing it myself will be major, because I am a wuss! I know it will give me a rush and make me feel puffed up.

There are a lot of divers who think like this. They are more likely to say they are into wife-swapping than to admit it though. Why?

It is taboo.

I'd do it for him, but I am sure we will see RB to the surface, rule of 3rds and gas management numbers based on a 75% max depth 1st stop 1 min/10ft ascent profile numbers/calculations from Kevin soon ... and as a bonus maybe even a little RD, MDL or 1:1 30/30...or 21/35.

Bottom line: The use of these methods/tools is up to the individual & his/her teammate...like you said if you understand the risks and if you are willing to take them then no one will stop you. It's not how I would approach an overhead dive...nor would I dive it if a buddy/teammate suggested it to me...but it's a free country afterall.

I need to go diving...this cyberdiving thing is killing me...my skin is getting all dryed out and it's only been 3 days.

Hey..we didn't mind watching your boat ...rough seas...nah.

 

[Cacia]

well, Just for arguments sake, do you do any other thing that IS more dangerous?

and how does that square out in your mind?

As the father of young kids and the breadwinner, you have a different set of cards on the table.

As an Instructor you have a responsibilty that you would not have if you were ..just a rock climber, for example.

The reason I am paranoid about not having anybody top-side to watch the boat (especially in wind) is that WALTER told me not to ever do it. Certain people tell me things and it is like God speaking.

I figure once that geek-freak, scuba pimp, Rockjock gets my housing made for the EPIRB, we can negotiate a bit. ...if the Coast Guard will respond to my beacon after all I said to them after the Rapture accident.

I really don't want to be floating out there, I go a little nuts after an hour.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Get that EPIRB Housing done first & foremost before crossing the channel by yourself . . .in wreckdiving and boating/sailing, it's always good to be prepared & "prudently paranoid".

 

[Kevrumbo]

I'd do it for him, but I am sure we will see RB to the surface, rule of 3rds and gas management numbers based on a 75% max depth 1st stop 1 min/10ft ascent profile numbers/calculations from Kevin soon ... and as a bonus maybe even a little RD, MDL or 1:1 30/30...or 21/35.

Bottom line: The use of these methods/tools is up to the individual & his/her teammate...like you said if you understand the risks and if you are willing to take them then no one will stop you. It's not how I would approach an overhead dive...nor would I dive it if a buddy/teammate suggested it to me...but it's a free country afterall.

I need to go diving...this cyberdiving thing is killing me...my skin is getting all dryed out and it's only been 3 days.

Hey..we didn't mind watching your boat ...rough seas...nah.

Conservatively, Catherine and her Buddy each gotta reserve 50 cubic feet of their Single AL80 or 2000psi, for a Rock Bottom OOA emergency contingency, starting at 120' right below the grating entry/exit way and performing all the necessary minimum deco stops to the surface (and they've got 30 to 45 sec to successfully negotiate that restriction at the grating, while doing a single-file air share on long hose:11: ).

Before squeezing under the grating, they should recalculate the Rule-of-Thirds, with whoever has the least amount of gas. Say Catherine has 2900psi and her buddy has 2800psi --then her buddy has the least amount of gas. So subtract out 2000psi for Rock Bottom which gives 800psi and take one-third of 800psi which is approx. 260psi. Whoever is the first one to use a delta of 260psi down from their starting pressure (2900 minus 260 for Catherine and 2800 minus 260 for her buddy) then turns the dive to get back below the grating. (Total bottom time on a nominal 2.3 cu ft/min Depth Consumption Rate for both would be about 6 minutes, being aware that the NDL at 120’ is 10 minutes). If all is well, they should arrive back below the entry/exit with at least 2200psi for the ascent. (And don’t get hung-up/stuck in the grating like I did!:11: )

Minimum Deco Profile looks like:
120’ 10min. max NDL Time

120’ to 90’ ascend at 30fpm
90’ 10 second pause
80’ 10sec.
70’ 10sec.
60’ 1min. stop
50’ 1min.
40’ 1min
30’ 1min
20’ 1min (or 3min. if surface conditions are rough)
---> ascend to surface at 6fpm (or 1 foot every 10 seconds).

 

[ScubaAndDreams]

there it is... Jo and AG would be proud of you That's how I would plan for the same dive...of course my SAC rate isn't .5...so I would be even limited more on only an Al80.