Problem at Gilboa 4/21

[do it easy]

Most people can't deploy a stage fast enough, so this will just make a bad situation worse.

Just to be clear- I agree that doubles are the better option, but if a diver is going to carry a pony, it's better to be able to reach the valve.

 

[scubapolly]

What works on one dive doesn't guarantee to work flawless on another under identical conditions.

There is no such thing as identical conditions.

 

[wb416]

Agreed. With the possible exception of advanced classes doing their deep dive, using the platform as the bottom.

I doubt Spare Airs would be environmentally sealed, or designed for use in cold water.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mike doesn't tell AOW classes to use the depth past the tubes to meet their deep dive requirements. Given the limited experience that most AOW candidates have, there's too much opportunity for students to miss the 70ft platform and head for the bottom.

Frankly, I wouldn't blame him if he did, and would encourage considering him to do so. Save the deep end for the Tech classes.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Last winter, I personally witnessed the free-flow of both of a diver's regs on the same dive. One was a Apeks TX-100 and I believe the other was the TX-50 model (on his backup reg). The buddy came through with a reg to get them to the surface... this wasn't a drill.

In a more recent incident, a diver in Ontario (Rockport region) had a free-flow with an Apeks reg also while ice diving. Unfortunately, that situation didn't end well, and they weren't novices either.

I don't want there to be the impression that high quality Apeks are bullet-proof, even though they are high-end regs and enviro-sealed.

What works on one dive doesn't guarantee to work flawless on another under identical conditions.

No arguement here. Any reg can free flow and I didn't intend to imply otherwise but rather to point out that all regs are not created equal for diving cold water.

 

[wb416]

Just to be clear- I agree that doubles is the better option, but if a diver is going to carry a pony, it's better to be able to reach the valve.

If they don't practice emergency deployment in pressure situations, they are wasting their time and just fooling themselves.

 

[OH-JJ]

(From your free flow problem)...90 seconds-time you have in a freeflow situation with an AL80- AND another 60 secs(or more but lets take a minimal)-time you have with a 3cf Spare Air bottle- to me ='s about 2 and a half minutes.....IMO, plenty of time to make a safe ascent from 100'---heck, maybe even time to hang @ 15' for a while & enjoy a little scenic view of the bottom........

This EXACT reason is why I carry one for 'normal', no overhead obstructive Caribbean diving.......

With all due respect.... You don't know what you are talking about. the Deep side of Gilboa is not a Rec Diving area. The entry point is 117 feet, and with the spring rains it is likely even deeper. The absolute minimum redundant air source is a 19 CF Poney, with doubles prefered.

http://www.divegilboa.com/graphics/uw/gilboamap.jpg

 

[ekewaka]

Assuming free flow in one, buddy breathing on the part of another.... poor buoyancy.... you also have an air demand for filling the drysuit, and adding air to the BC to combatdropping deeper...... almost gurantees a freeflow in the reg of the buddy.

Inflating the bc and drysuit would only be necessary while descending. Why would you be descending while sharing air?

 

[Doubles]

I have seen 42F frequently cited as a benchmark to require a cold water capable regulator but it's only a benchmark.

Atomic says anything colder than 50F is considered cold water requiring an environmentally sealed 1st stage.

-s

 

[Meister481]

If I remember correctly Gilboa has a policy that you must have a deep plan filed and in the rules to use the deep section it said you had to have a redundant air source or doubles. Is this correct?

I had a buddy do the 100' free flow trick on me in Lake Michigan, he made it to the top b4 the tank went dry- totally ignoring the pony he had slung. He ignored my signals to come to me so I could help him and donate gas. He just waved as he went out of sight. I had to do a free ascent trying to maximize my ascent rate and make it to the top in time to help him out.

It happens, so cover it in your predive- the consequences are serious.

Sign at gilboa on the deep side.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I wouldn't be surprised if Mike doesn't tell AOW classes to use the depth past the tubes to meet their deep dive requirements. Given the limited experience that most AOW candidates have, there's too much opportunity for students to miss the 70ft platform and head for the bottom.

Frankly, I wouldn't blame him if he did, and would encourage considering him to do so. Save the deep end for the Tech classes.

I had this conversation with Mike about the time he was putting the 70 ft platform in. I always did my AOW deep dives near the tubes and I won't even enter on the deep side when there's AOW or "AOW like" stuff going on. He may have changed his mind but his concern at the time was the distance from the tubes to the dock.

Unfortunately some of us have just had too many oportunities to discuss this over the years. It's deep enough and cold enough that it isn't anything to play with. It's also popular enough that there is plenty of oportunity.

As far as I'm concerned Mike has done everything reasonably possible to encourage safe diving. I know for a fact that this stuff bothers him and I don't know how he does it. It's time for the divers, instructors (students have been hurt) and the agencies to wake up.