Problem at Gilboa 4/21

[spectrum]

Let's be careful here. It's been a good discussion about the risks and what drives them. Things could have played out in many different ways and this thread is pertaining to a specific accident. Let's not loose sight of that.

Pete

 

[scubapolly]

Any word on if they were in Drysuits? Roughtly 95% of people diving Gilboa this time of year particularly on the dry side are.

Assuming free flow in one, buddy breathing on the part of another.... poor buoyancy.... you also have an air demand for filling the drysuit, and adding air to the BC to combatdropping deeper...... almost gurantees a freeflow in the reg of the buddy.

I've seen a bunch of freeflows in the deep side of Gilboa..... the reg that worked for you great when you did you certification 5 years ago in the Caribean, isn't necessarily the same reg you should be diving on the deep side of Gilboa.

 

[do it easy]

How about this, first guy reg froze, went for buddies octopus, second guy's reg froze, went for the third, but they had only one octo, then all panicked...

Tell me not to go below 20 ft if it is really cold in the water.

As far as learning from this accident, the order isn't as important. The take away points are 1) free flows can happen- know how to avoid and manage free flows. This might involve a redundant air source and better buoyancy.

At the risk of attracting the wrath of the mob, I wonder if a CESA would have made a difference?

 

[do it easy]

Any word on if they were in Drysuits? Roughtly 95% of people diving Gilboa this time of year particularly on the dry side are.

I have a separate bottle and reg for inflating my drysuit. I usually put argon in it, but if the water is cold, I will use it, even if it is filled with air. This gives me more options for controlling my buoyancy without overworking my regs.

 

[scubapolly]

This was posted in issue #17 of Advanced Diver Magazine.

The test was run with an AL80
and Zeagle D50 regulator on the surface, 4atm, and 8atm with
four failure modes: blown burst disk, a severed LP hose, a free
flowing reg, and a severed HP hose. Please note some results
are in seconds and some are in minutes.


Here are the results on the surface:
1. Failed Burst Disk = 72 seconds
2. Failed HP Hose = 22 minutes
3. Failed LP Hose = 83 seconds
4. Free Flow High Performance Regulator = 255 seconds

I then repeated the test at 4 atm’s / 99ft
1. Failed Burst Disk = Same within a second or 2
2. Failed HP Hose = Same within a minute
3. Failed LP Hose = Same within a second or 2
4. Free Flow High Performance Regulator = 155 seconds

I then repeated the test at 8 atm’s / 231ft
1. Failed Burst Disk = Same within a second or 2
2. Failed HP Hose = did not complete due to time restraints but would assume it
would be with a minute difference
3. Failed LP Hose = Same within a second or 2
4. Free Flow High Performance Regulator = 91 seconds

Are those switched?

 

[do it easy]

Are those switched?

Nope- remember that the HP hose has a tiny orifice so it is high pressure and low flow.

 

[Jchoby]

Any word on if they were in Drysuits? Roughtly 95% of people diving Gilboa this time of year particularly on the dry side are.
.

Don't know yet. I've heard some general info indicating at least one had a drysuit.

 

[wb416]

Any word on if they were in Drysuits? Roughtly 95% of people diving Gilboa this time of year particularly on the dry side are.

Assuming free flow in one, buddy breathing on the part of another.... poor buoyancy.... you also have an air demand for filling the drysuit, and adding air to the BC to combatdropping deeper...... almost gurantees a freeflow in the reg of the buddy.

I've seen a bunch of freeflows in the deep side of Gilboa..... the reg that worked for you great when you did you certification 5 years ago in the Caribean, isn't necessarily the same reg you should be diving on the deep side of Gilboa.

There was a drysuit laying on the dock that looked like someone had been cut out of it. They took it away in a plastic bag, so I'm guessing it belonged to one of the divers.

 

[DandyDon]

At the risk of attracting the wrath of the mob, I wonder if a CESA would have made a difference?

When all else goes to caca - worth a try.

Yet, wouldn't the best action on the second free flow been for all to ascend, sipping on free flows as possible? Resolving problems in the water is a nice idea when reasonable, but if nothing else - get to surface.

If each had a spare air, would they've been saved?

Maybe, maybe not - I wouldn't expect much from that reg, but 3 or 6 cf is more than nothing, help for a bit if it worked - then Cesa.

 

[fisherdvm]

Maybe, maybe not - I wouldn't expect much from that reg, but 3 or 6 cf is more than nothing, help for a bit if it worked - then Cesa.

Thanks Don, for not bashing Spare Air. I don't know if I want to dive that cold and that deep without some kind of redundant air system, regardless of size.