pony bottles

[Xanthro]

If you are diving as a part of a team, then the pony bottle does not solve any problems that could not be solved by the team.

A pony does solve some problems that could not be solved as a team, it's just that such problems are exceedingly rare. If I experience a valve problem and my buddy experiences a free flow at the same time, then we can't exactly back each other up. While such a multiple failure is highly unlikely, the chance of having four failures borders on impossible odds.

If you are a solo diver (and you above example puts you into that category IMO), then a failure could have dire consequences.

I agree, and a pony is not a substitute for a good team anymore than an octo is a substitute for a good team.

[qutoe=JeffG]But understand, it (the pony) only solves a few scenario's and that there are countless other in which you would be toast which could be solved via diving as a team (think entanglement as an example)[/QUOTE]

But as you admit, it solves some scenarios. I'll take reducing the number of potential life-threatening situations as a good thing.

BTW, this is why if I'm not in a good team I avoid any type of complicated dive, and for me that includes any depth beyond 60 feet, any type of entanglement that can be foreseen, and anything that is even remotely beyond easy.

The only argument I keep hearing is X can be solved by training and good team work. Again, what is the downside of carrying a pony? If there is no downside, then there is no legitimate argument against one.

Diving is about reducing your risk, a good team is the best method to do this, but not the only method. DIR stresses gear managment because it reduces risk. A pony reduces risk. In a proper team, that reduction in risk might be minute, but if it outweighs the additional risk, it is still worth carrying, and when you are not fortunate enough to be in a good team, in reduces your risk even more.

 

[lamont]

However, often I don't have control over my buddies. Sometimes I get paired up with people who aren't the safest, or people who lack their own gas managment. I've been on a dive where two divers out of four went OOA at 90feet. Trust me, I wish I had my pony then. I didn't bring it because I knew my buddy well, the other team went OOA and either couldn't read their gauges or lied when asked for their pressure. FYI, it was an advance open water deep dive, I was paired with the instructor, the other two were students as well.

We are clearly speaking a different language.

A large way that I handle that problem is that I dive with the same buddies. If you're a vacation diver who goes alone, you clearly have issues that I don't have. When I do dive with someone new who doesn't have the same training background, I make a gas plan for them, I checkpoint the gas plan at several points on the dive, I reserve plenty of my backgas in case they go OOA, and generally I like to take a peek at their gauges (one reason why I don't like AI wrist computers is that it makes this hard to do). I also tend to dive more conservatively with people that I haven't dove with before. Once I have confidence that we won't get separated, and that if I have a free-flow I can get on their backgas, and that they're not unsafe in some other way, then they've met the basic requirements that I need out of a buddy. Really, it is much better if you're training in the same way, though, because then you actually get significant benefits out of having a second brain and set of eyes with you.

 

[mnj1233]

We are clearly speaking a different language.

A large way that I handle that problem is that I dive with the same buddies. If you're a vacation diver who goes alone, you clearly have issues that I don't have. When I do dive with someone new who doesn't have the same training background, I make a gas plan for them, I checkpoint the gas plan at several points on the dive, I reserve plenty of my backgas in case they go OOA, and generally I like to take a peek at their gauges (one reason why I don't like AI wrist computers is that it makes this hard to do). I also tend to dive more conservatively with people that I haven't dove with before. Once I have confidence that we won't get separated, and that if I have a free-flow I can get on their backgas, and that they're not unsafe in some other way, then they've met the basic requirements that I need out of a buddy. Really, it is much better if you're training in the same way, though, because then you actually get significant benefits out of having a second brain and set of eyes with you.

Ever breath thru a free-flow??? Its not the emergency all think it is. Many who speak of them have not even had one.

Please be honest.

 

[JeffG]

Well said!!!!!

in the fact that he knows that he is diving in a position of compromised safety (of his own choosing) and is making the best of it. Yep, it was well said.

 

[mnj1233]

in the fact that he knows that he is diving in a position of compromised safety (of his own choosing) and is making the best of it. Yep, it was well said.

jeff no offense but I think your avatar is a bit disturbing!!!~!

 

[lamont]

A pony does solve some problems that could not be solved as a team, it's just that such problems are exceedingly rare. If I experience a valve problem and my buddy experiences a free flow at the same time, then we can't exactly back each other up. While such a multiple failure is highly unlikely, the chance of having four failures borders on impossible odds.

Sure, you could have some catastrophic gas loss issue (say o-ring extrudes) and then when your buddy donates, the reg free flows and won't stop. If I'm worried about that, though, I'd prefer to have doubles rather than a pony bottle. To really protect against double-failures you'd need to use a pony bottle like a stage. Otherwise, you go to your pony bottle at depth and discover that the reg has been slightly crushed and at depth it breathes so wet that you inhale water (happened to my backup reg a few weeks ago and it breathed acceptably enough at the surface for me to not notice anything wrong at the surface).

That's another problem with pony bottles, which is that if you're not making them part of the plan for safety reasons and you're not using them at depth, you may find out that they have issues when you actually need to use them at depth.

 

[JeffG]

jeff no offense but I think your avatar is a bit disturbing!!!~!

But I like it

 

[Soggy]

That's another problem with pony bottles, which is that if you're not making them part of the plan for safety reasons and you're not using them at depth, you may find out that they have issues when you actually need to use them at depth.

A point I (unsuccessfully) tried to make about 13 pages ago....

 

[lamont]

Ever breath thru a free-flow??? Its not the emergency all think it is. Many who speak of them have not even had one.

Please be honest.

Nothing in what you quoted implied that a free-flow was an emergency. Stop inventing things.

 

[matt_unique]

....
That's another problem with pony bottles, which is that if you're not making them part of the plan for safety reasons and you're not using them at depth, you may find out that they have issues when you actually need to use them at depth.

That has nothing to do with the use of the pony but the practices of the diver. The same could be said about any other piece of gear such as your 2nd primary on the necklace.

--Matt