pony bottles

[String]

Even if it does fail, it's only annoying, not fatal. The hole in a HP hose is amazingly tiny.

Yes. A HP failiure is nowhere near as disasterous as a LP hose failiure.

For some figures for this try:

http://www.divernet.com/technique/0102twins.htm

Read about halfway down where they timed different failiure modes and rates. Its quite sobering reading.

 

[Xanthro]

If your "stressed" SAC wasn't at least double what your happy-drifting-in-sunny-blue-water SAC is, then chances are really good you weren't all that stressed.

Terry

I'll agree with this, that "problems" underwater really stress me, even if they are dangerous. As long as I have access to some kind of air that I control, I pretty much don't suffer stress underwater.

Now, driving or looking for parking is another matter all together. I thought I'd have a heart attack this morning trying to find a parking space in time for a meeting.

But if a pony reduces a divers stress, then it is valuable. To me minimzing stress is the key to safe diving.

 

[lamont]

Well, I just found the website that has the top 12 things Klingon Programmer say. It was just to true to my current project. So I had to adopt the saying


My next fav was: You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you stand!


http://tannagh.com/post/2004/04/12-things-a-klingon-programmer-would-say/

I have challenged the entire NE solo wreck diving community to a Bat-Leh contest. They will not concern us again.

 

[JeffG]

I have challeneged the entire NE solo wreck diving community to a Bat-Leh contest. They will not concern us again.

 

[matt_unique]

And "Buddy Reliance" is the warcry of the solo diver.

I'd put my diving skills up against any solo diver of similar experience to mine, but choose to dive using the team approach. I still don't understand why this choice turns me into a dysfunctional co-dependent diver...

Each "camp" certainly has their war cry. Those in the DIR camp run around shouting it more than any other.

What is your implied outcome of "(putting) my diving skills up against any solo diver of similar experience to mine"?

Your choice to practice DIR makes you a dysfunctional co-dependent diver in the same way a diver choosing a solo methodology makes them a floating disaster incapable of proper dive planning. (If this does not sound absurd, you're missing the point). Those in each camp tend to refer to the other as though they are the least experienced among them.

--Matt

 

[Xanthro]

If the pony has no use on the dive, then you should not bring it to minimize the gear that you have. If you are bringing the pony bottle for a reason, then you clearly think that there is some problem that the pony bottle is solving. In all circumstances the problem that the pony bottle is solving (bad gas management and bad buddy skills most likely) can and should be addressed some other way. Therefore a pony bottle is a symptom of a problem.

I wholly disagree. 99.9% of the time an octo has no use on a dive. Do you carry one?

Pony > octo. If you blow a o-ring in an octo, you lose your back gas. You blow an o-ring in your pony, who cares, since you don't need it for your dive anyway. It's there only for unforseen emergencies.

I never come close to running out of air. The dives I do are mostly simple, and I end 90% of my dives with more than 1500 psi, so I don't need my pony for gas mangement.

However, often I don't have control over my buddies. Sometimes I get paired up with people who aren't the safest, or people who lack their own gas managment. I've been on a dive where two divers out of four went OOA at 90feet. Trust me, I wish I had my pony then. I didn't bring it because I knew my buddy well, the other team went OOA and either couldn't read their gauges or lied when asked for their pressure. FYI, it was an advance open water deep dive, I was paired with the instructor, the other two were students as well.

Being able to hand off a pony to someone is a nice feature.

Again, I see no real argument against a pony. Every argument made so far would apply to an octo as well.

Does having a pony increase my danger in diving? Perhaps a slight increase in entanglement I guess. Since I can easily unclip it, this is minor. The upside is if something unknown and wholly unplanned happens, I have a backup.

It's a risk vs benefit argument. Almost no increased risk, with possible life saving benefits. It's the same reason we carry an octo.

 

[lamont]

Each "camp" certainly has their war cry. Those in the DIR camp run around shouting it more than any other.

You're missing your own point.

The other side of the argument has their position written up in books like Deep/Dark Descent and Shadow Divers and read by millions of people.

What is your implied outcome of "(putting) my diving skills up against any solo diver of similar experience to mine"?

Uh, do you not understand basic English idiom?

Your choice to practice DIR makes you a dysfunctional co-dependent diver in the same way a diver choosing a solo methodology makes them a floating disaster incapable of proper dive planning. (If this does not sound absurd, you're missing the point). Those in each camp tend to refer to the other as though they are the least experienced among them.

--Matt

No, actually I agree with that.

 

[JeffG]

However, often I don't have control over my buddies. Sometimes I get paired up with people who aren't the safest, or people who lack their own gas managment.

This is the crucial part.

If you are diving as a part of a team, then the pony bottle does not solve any problems that could not be solved by the team.

If you are a solo diver (and you above example puts you into that category IMO), then a failure could have dire consequences.

But understand, it (the pony) only solves a few scenario's and that there are countless other in which you would be toast which could be solved via diving as a team (think entanglement as an example)

 

[Xanthro]

non-diving spouses are clearly not DIR.

While you are joking, for some of us that is an issue. My wife cannot dive because of medical reasons, and while I have a brother that dives, he doesn't dive nearly as often as I do.

I have nothing against DIR, it sounds pretty good to me actually, but each dive seems to be an expedition. I love expeditions, whether diving or camping. However, sometimes I just want to get wet. I don't want to make an expedition out of the dive, I just want to float around and see some underwater life, maybe if I'm lucky meet some interesting new people on the boat.

While on vacation, unless my brother comes, I'll be diving with people I do not know, nor have the chance to evaluate them before hand. Hence, buddy reliance is not safe.

Since I've now chosen to dive the same gear for every dive, I now bring my pony even if I'm paired with a known competent buddy. It's simply safer. That way at safety stops, I can practice deployment and hand offs, and when I get stuck with a bad buddy, I don't have to watch my backup gas swim away like a like R. Kelly chasing after the Olsen twins.

 

[mnj1233]

While you are joking, for some of us that is an issue. My wife cannot dive because of medical reasons, and while I have a brother that dives, he doesn't dive nearly as often as I do.

I have nothing against DIR, it sounds pretty good to me actually, but each dive seems to be an expedition. I love expeditions, whether diving or camping. However, sometimes I just want to get wet. I don't want to make an expedition out of the dive, I just want to float around and see some underwater life, maybe if I'm lucky meet some interesting new people on the boat.

While on vacation, unless my brother comes, I'll be diving with people I do not know, nor have the chance to evaluate them before hand. Hence, buddy reliance is not safe.

Since I've now chosen to dive the same gear for every dive, I now bring my pony even if I'm paired with a known competent buddy. It's simply safer. That way at safety stops, I can practice deployment and hand offs, and when I get stuck with a bad buddy, I don't have to watch my backup gas swim away like a like R. Kelly chasing after the Olsen twins.

Well said!!!!!