pony bottles

[JeffG]

The real message gets lost because of the way the messge is delievered.

No. Its still there for the ones that want to see it (Which is true for both sides of the debate.)

 

[Xanthro]

We are clearly speaking a different language.

No, we are not speaking a different language.

A large way that I handle that problem is that I dive with the same buddies.

Which is great, but not applicible to many other divers. Plenty of divers dive to meet others and don't want to dive with the same people all the time. You are taking your subset of diving and trying to apply it to everyone else.

If you're a vacation diver who goes alone, you clearly have issues that I don't have.

And a way to minimize those issues is to carry a pony.

It's simple. Same buddies equals way less diving. That's not acceptable.

When I do dive with someone new who doesn't have the same training background, I make a gas plan for them, I checkpoint the gas plan at several points on the dive, I reserve plenty of my backgas in case they go OOA, and generally I like to take a peek at their gauges (one reason why I don't like AI wrist computers is that it makes this hard to do). I also tend to dive more conservatively with people that I haven't dove with before.

I think that is pretty much standard. It's what I do as well.

Once I have confidence that we won't get separated, and that if I have a free-flow I can get on their backgas, and that they're not unsafe in some other way, then they've met the basic requirements that I need out of a buddy.

And sometimes you never get to this point. I've been on a dive where I was assigned a buddy. We did all the planning needed. Discussed it again on the surface. We submerge and he instantly deviates from the plan, starts swimming away as fast as he can, never once looks back, swims into a giant kelp forest, all the time I'm trying to catch up to him to tap him on the shoulder to slow down. When I get near, he turns and up kicks me in the face knocking the regulator out and my mask off, and hit me hard enough to see stars. By the time I get my mask back on, he's nowhere to be seen. I search for a minute, surface and get entangled in the kelp. That's why I bring a pony now. Did I run out of air? No, not even close, but if I couldn't un-entangle myself it could have been bad. Took me more than 10 minutes to work myself free.

Sometimes diving with unknown divers can be dangerous even if you plan everything out in advance.

I've been on plenty of dives where I've never become comfortable the person wouldn't separate. I could simply call the dive and leave them alone if they refused to come up. Instead, normally, I'll treat it as a solo dive and stay near them in case they run into trouble. I'd feel very guilty if I entered the water with someone and that person died, even if it were his or her fault. I won't dive with that person again, unless significant changes occur.

Really, it is much better if you're training in the same way, though, because then you actually get significant benefits out of having a second brain and set of eyes with you.

Of course you do. Nobody is saying you don't. I've been very clear that a good team is the best diving. The issue is you don't always have a good team.

Am I more endangered by not diving in a good team, yes I am, but that risk can be reduced by diving conservatively and using proper gear, and a slung pony is a useful tool for reducing such risk.

Again, nobody can give a danger to using a pony.

The most people have is that perhaps your second stage gets crushed. I'm not in the habit of having my gear get crushed, and I check my pony at least once on a dive.

Plus, if I'm going past 60 feet, I'm either having doubles or a good buddy.

 

[lamont]

Which is great, but not applicible to many other divers. Plenty of divers dive to meet others and don't want to dive with the same people all the time. You are taking your subset of diving and trying to apply it to everyone else.

*sigh*

That was exactly the point I was trying to make in describing how I approach diving. "We are not speaking the same language" == "My diving is different from your diving".

I was actually trying to be as neutral as possible in that post and just be descriptive about how I dive and how I don't see any utility in a pony bottle for my kind of diving (note all the 'I's and 'my's in that sentence).

 

[Curt Bowen]

Lets leave the hypothetical “I only dive with a team” BS behind and take a look at REAL life. Someday (when you have more than 50 to 500 dives) you will find yourself separated from your TEAM members, alone on the bottom.

I cannot count the number of times it has happened to me. It was not due to bad TEAM members, but real life poor dive conditions.

Lets see a hand of divers who have at one time lost their buddy for more than 5 minutes.

If you choose not to carry a redundant gas supply, that is your prerogative.

With my 24 years of diving experience in all types of environments and conditions, I choose to carry my own bailout and not rely on a TEAM member to save my butt.

If a TEAM member is handy and wants to assist, awesome.

 

[markfm]

Aww, Curt, don't try to introduce the outside world into philosophical debates, it spoils the argument.

It can be entertaining, though repetitive, kind of like the irresistable force meeting the immovable object

 

[Xanthro]

*sigh*

That was exactly the point I was trying to make in describing how I approach diving. "We are not speaking the same language" == "My diving is different from your diving".

I was actually trying to be as neutral as possible in that post and just be descriptive about how I dive and how I don't see any utility in a pony bottle for my kind of diving (note all the 'I's and 'my's in that sentence).

Perhaps I misunderstood what you are saying, but it appears that you are arguing against anyone having a pony for any reason.

That's what I take issue with. If you don't want a pony, that's fine by me.

To me, a pony makes perfect sense for those times doubles are not warranted.

The orginal poster asked about ponys, I and others pointed out or personal experiences with them. Most of us say go larger size and sling it, and practice with it.

Others simply take the stance that something must be fundamentally wrong with a diver who uses a pony. To me that's unwarranted.

If I misunderstood you, it's because what salience does your particular diving not needing a pony add to the topic?

 

[JeffG]

Aww, Curt, don't try to introduce the outside world into philosophical debates, it spoils the argument.

It can be entertaining, though repetitive, kind of like the irresistable force meeting the immovable object

Actually, he didn't add anything. He said "take or do not take redundant gas because at sometime you will be alone."

 

[Web Monkey]

Lets see a hand of divers who have at one time lost their buddy for more than 5 minutes.

Hmm. Lets see.

Key Largo: Boat Buddy didn't want any no-fog, once in the water her mask fogged over so completely that she would have had better viz without it, and she spent the entire dive crawling across the sand, scared to clear it and wouldn't let me help. This was worse than a solo dive, since I spent it hovering nearby, making sure she didn't stop breathing or bolt to the surface. No pony here, since it was only maybe 25' deep.

Key Largo: The next year. New Boat Buddy: made plan with buddy about heading over to the large coral heads and taking some fish pictures, then returning to the boat when one of us hit 600 PSI (it was a very shallow dive). Hit the water, and Boat Buddy took off like a torpedo, heading directly for Africa. I chased for maybe 100 yards, then gave up. Never saw him until he came back to the boat.

St. Thomas: No buddy at all. Just a pod of brand new divers following the DM like a row of newly hatched ducklings. I could have been dragged down to the briny deep by a giant squid and nobody would have noticed.

Grabbing a dive on short notice in a touristy area is pretty much a guarantee of getting a bad or missing buddy, so I try to be as self-sufficient as possible. I tend to hear a lot of semi-sarcastic remarks from the boat crew about bringing a pony, but in the immortal words of Bender: "They can bite my shiny metal *ss"

Terry

 

[mnj1233]

I have been thinking about getting a redundant system for diving. I am think about the 13cf or the 19cf. I would strap these to my main tank. Any input would be helpful. Also if anyone has the knowledge.... about how much time can one get from these pony bottles. I know it depends on the person but a close guess would help.
Thanks in advance for your help..

Second time Ive done this but here goes, This is the original thread question. How many feel silly reading this then reading thier posts??????

 

[mnj1233]

Ya know if you wanna discuss all the other stuff just start a different thread, this guy asked two questions. Answer him/her or move on.