PADI Trimix

[nordicdiver]

Originally posted by Uncle Pug


Run to who?
Why would anyone care?
Are you GUE trained Nordicdiver?

Please excuse my slow responce, I am going between here &
cavers.

If you didn't recognize the G I, I believe you don't understand
all the issues involved with this. Pug I don't mean that in a bad way, please don't take it that way.

Believe me, There are some that care enough to create problems!

Yes, Some But I Dive the way I believe works best for me.

Nordic Diver

 

[VTWarrenG]

nordic,

You can rest assured that Uncle Pug knows who GI3 is... if you weren't such a poor speaker of english, perhaps he could actually understand your posts.

You really need to shut your trap and read a bit longer before posting and making a total idiot out of yourself. Just a hint.

- Warren

 

[Lost Yooper]

To all,

Here's a link that (in part) describes a DAN study of Australian diving deaths. Here's a quote:

"DAN statistics In the most recent report on Australian Diving Deaths (1972-1993), nitrogen narcosis was recorded as a contributing factor in 14 of the 178 scuba deaths (8%). Their dive depths ranged from 35-65m for the 7 cave/sink-hole divers and 36-54m for the 6 wreck divers who died. (One unknown, body never recovered but last seen descending over a reef which bottomed out at 400m+). These are the tragic fatalities; subtle narcosis could have been a contributing factor in an unknown number of accidents of others who have survived."

http://www.divenewzealand.com/56raptures.html

If we can extrapolate the 8% to the entire industry (which I believe is low, but will do for convenience) we can combine it with Elliot and Bennet's findings. Elliot and Bennet published something called Underwater Accidents -- The Physiology of Medicine and Diving in 1993. They found that 60% of all fatalities occured with divers having less than 20 dives.

Ya'll can read what you want into all of this, but I think 8% is fairly substantial. I believe this number would decline if the industry took a hardline against deep air diving and made it virtually taboo. I would venture a guess that by having PADI, NAUI, and other popular agencies endorse deep air, the 8% figure will rise -- if it hasn't already. Maybe I'm wrong, but it is clear that narcosis is a physiological phenomenon that one can't learn to deal with, or adapt to, according to numerous scientific studies.

Good night.

Mike

 

[nordicdiver]

Warren I have no Idea who G13 is, But I am glad you do.

I am glad you think you know so much about diving, Maybe you

could tell us everything you know.

That should not take over one posting.! Maybe two.!

Here are a few questions to start you off.

How long have you been diving ?
How many dives have you made & what is the average depth ?
What training have you had ?
What type of diving do you do ?
How many cave dives have you made ?
Why do you want to dive ?

If you feel embaresed by your answers, you can always answer
me in a private mail.!!!! Ok big mouth, Here is your chance.!!

Nordic Diver

 

[Drew Sailbum]

Originally posted by Lost Yooper
So, what was/is PADI's thinking here? Why don't they discontinue deep air if it's not a money maker? Do they think trimix will be a money maker? I heard somewhere that only like 5% of all certified divers go on to tech stuff. It seems odd to me that they would offer a deep air course which they know is backwards and unsafe and not make money on it. What would their motives be? I'm getting an even worse impression than I had prior to hearing that .

IMHO, PADI looks at devloping DSAT and technical diving in general as a long term investment. Retention of experienced divers for technical training also presents the opportunity to sell other advanced courses to those students. After all, Enriched Air, Deep Diver, AOW, and Rescue Diver are all prerequisites for the TecRec program. Those are all long established money making programs.

I don't think they are losing money on the TecRec program - only that the opportunity cost has been higher than they anticipated. The whole industry took an amazing beating in the Fourth Quarter 2001, and PADI was no exception (ballpark $1million loss for the quarter). The recovery of the initial investment (staff time and resources) in developing the TecRec program has apparently been slower than anticipated.

The opinion expressed at the PADI Member Forum seemed to be that if the investment of resources had been directed to other areas (youth program development, as an example), recovery of that initial start-up investment would have been much faster.

Telling information on PADI's view of deep air will come when DSAT releases their Trimix course. Will the TecRec deep air course be a prerequisite? I have no idea, but it will be interesting to see. My guess is that at least the Apprentice TecRec course will be required, since that covers use of some tech equipment and procedures down to a max depth of 130ft.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Hey....
Nordic Diver...
I apologize for baiting you...
And Warren... let's be civil guys....

We all know who George Irving the third is...
G, GI, G3, GI3, Trey...

And you would really have to be someone important for him to care whether you are a GUE trained deep diver.

So unless you are claiming to be WKPP
Relax...

I'm not going to run to G whatever....
Who cares if you dive deep air....
I gotta quit being so circumspect!

 

[VTWarrenG]

There sure are a lot of the singing pig variety of people on ScubaBoard these days. It'd be nice to actually discuss diving on ScubaBoard for a change.

- Warren

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by VTWarrenG
It'd be nice to actually discuss diving on ScubaBoard for a change.

- Warren

I started one just for you Warren in basic scuba discussions...
>> blood ~n~ snot

 

[jimholcomb]

Originally posted by nordicdiver
Warren I have no Idea who G13 is, But I am glad you do.

I am glad you think you know so much about diving, Maybe you

could tell us everything you know.

That should not take over one posting.! Maybe two.!

Here are a few questions to start you off.

How long have you been diving ?
How many dives have you made & what is the average depth ?
What training have you had ?
What type of diving do you do ?
How many cave dives have you made ?
Why do you want to dive ?

If you feel embaresed by your answers, you can always answer
me in a private mail.!!!! Ok big mouth, Here is your chance.!!

Nordic Diver

I don't give a rat's-ass how many dives a person has as long as they are a safe dive. Warren makes sense to me while you brag about deep air dives. Wake up dude! These aren't opininons we're expressing here - they are facts - NARCOSIS CAN KILL. O2 CAN KILL. PERIOD. And its everybody responsibility to educate divers to these facts. If you want to sit back like a happy idiot in idotsville on get in to idotsville free day than go ahead. But some of the statements you are making are flat out irresponsible. Questioning Warren's credentials when you just talked about all your deep air dives is DUMB!

 

[VTWarrenG]

Jim,

Thanks for the boost -- it's good to know I'm not completely nuts.

nordic,

My diving experience is pretty modest:

3 yrs. experience
NACD Intro Cave
PADI Divemaster
~250 dives
Equal parts shore diving, wreck diving, and permanent line cave diving.
Max depth 135 fsw

I will defer immediately to a recognizable authority -- Uncle Pug, Lost Yooper, jimholcomb, and several others here are obviously my diving superiors. How do I know they're my superiors? Because of the level of knowledge expressed in the things they choose to say. I honestly have no idea how many dives they've done -- and even if it were only 100, I would still recognize their superior knowledge and ability.

On the other hand, everything about you indicates that you're an absolute stroke -- there, I said it -- your endorsement of activities like deep air that are well-known to be unnecessarily dangerous, the way you speak to people you barely know, even your insistence to learn my diving background before giving me any respect. Remember -- it is not the speaker that matters; what matters is what that speaker has to say.

- Warren