PADI-Sipping Air Free Flow?

[Lorenzoid]

GUE Fundamentals teaches the diver at the OW/Rec/single-tank level to be capable of manipulating his valve. However, the main reason given for this skill is in case the valve is inadvertently turned off, and the diver needs to turn it back on. I vaguely recall asking an instructor whether this could also be a good way to deal with a free flow, and the answer being that it's not. In the event of a free flow, I would call the dive and ascend with my buddy, breathing off my buddy's donated reg.

 

[Bob DBF]

I'd love to go through all the training manuals of all existing and no longer existing agencies.

Get an old copy of The New Science of Skin and SCUBA Diving and read that, it was the first attempt of the then SCUBA industry to make a definitive SCUBA training manual. You won't see in it a lot of the tricks that the instructors would add from their own experience. At the time, before the alphabet agencies, instructors could add all manor of skills and make your certification dependent upon passing those skills, this has changed a lot over the decades. In addition, the classes were a lot longer and a lot more material could be taught, some good and some not so good.

I was lucky that I got to train under a more old school instructor, but I had been diving for 17 years before I got around to an OW class.

As for a freeflow, sip the reg and get to the surface, that is what NDL is all about. Feathering a valve works if you really need it but why complicate things when your air is disappearing in front of your eyes.




Bob

 

[CptTightPants21]

I agree that valve feathering is a little advanced which is why I did not cover it with him.

Perhaps we should discuss different methods of "sipping air".

I still feel strongly that keeping the reg in one's mouth is the correct procedure and that in the extremely rare scenario where the air flow is "too much" a person will naturally allow the air to escape. The way he describes it, the instructors had him taking the reg out of his mouth with the purge button pushed, holding it in his hand, and sipping it that way.

 

[2airishuman]

I'm also curious as to how a reg is supposed to be able to give more air than when it is fully opened using the purge button?

There are two reasons for this.

1) On many 2nd stages, depressing the purge button fully does not open the valve fully
2) During a first stage freeflow, the IP can be much higher than it usually is, so that a greater volume of air flows through the 2nd stage than it would even when fully open at the customary IP.

You folks have me thinking. If a diver is in a backmounted single, most people will not be able to reach back and feather their valve.

I'll never understand why this isn't taught. Most people can do it if shown how. Most people won't figure it out for themselves in an emergency if they are not shown how. I believe that most divers can reach the valve, in the water, if they keep their elbow by their ear and reach back, using their left hand to push their elbow back if necessary.

I think it would save lives in the common situation of someone splashing with the valve off and an empty BC.

However, if the diver was trained to take off their BCD and wear it backwards and ascend, learning to feather it, that might work.

I don't think there's time for that during a serious freeflow.

GUE Fundamentals teaches the diver at the OW/Rec/single-tank level to be capable of manipulating his valve. However, the main reason given for this skill is in case the valve is inadvertently turned off, and the diver needs to turn it back on. I vaguely recall asking an instructor whether this could also be a good way to deal with a free flow, and the answer being that it's not. In the event of a free flow, I would call the dive and ascend with my buddy, breathing off my buddy's donated reg.

I think the main risk in trying to feather the valve is that it creates more than one way to deal with a time-critical emergency, and the ability to make good decisions in circumstances like that varies widely among individuals.

Typically on deep dives I have a pony. If I have a freeflow at depth while I have a pony with me, I'm going to shut down the tank valve and switch to the pony. I may end the dive at that point, or not, depending on the circumstances.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I believe that most divers can reach the valve, in the water, if they keep their elbow by their ear and reach back, using their left hand to push their elbow back if necessary.

In dry suits?

I don't think there's time for that during a serious freeflow.

In this thread, How Long For Freeflow To Empty Tank?, a comment by DA Aquamaster states:
--
I emptied a nearly full steel 72 at 140 ft in around 30 seconds with a MK 15 D400. It was a LOT faster than I expected.

I also recently tested a MK 20 D400 at the surface and found that it dumped air at about 40 cu ft per minute, so I'd estimate it would take two minutes to empty an AL 80 at the surface with a high performance reg.
--
So I think there is time.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Feathering a valve works if you really need it but why complicate things when your air is disappearing in front of your eyes.

Because you may be sufficiently deep that feathering will save you enough air to reach the surface? Though asking a new student to ascend to the surface while removing one's BCD and putting it on backwards. Of course, the counter argument is that they should be getting air from their buddy and ascend. But the reality is, dive buddies do get separated. I don't think saying "don't get separated" results in no buddy separation.

 

[Bob DBF]

Because you may be sufficiently deep that feathering will save you enough air to reach the surface? Though asking a new student to ascend to the surface while removing one's BCD and putting it on backwards.

What I may decide to do is a different question than what one would want to train a new diver to do out of a modern OW class. A CSEA will get you to the surface, a free flow will give you extra air along the way. Once a new diver has some experience and delt with some "ahh ****" moments, they can decide to try other alternatives.


Bob

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

What I may decide to do is a different question than what one would want to train a new diver to do out of a modern OW class. A CSEA will get you to the surface, a free flow will give you extra air along the way. Once a new diver has some experience and delt with some "ahh ****" moments, they can decide to try other alternatives.

This is something I'll be mulling over. I'll admit that the method I was taught for teaching dealing with a free flowing regulator isn't applicable in real life. I think it makes more sense for the student to swim over to their buddy and secure their alternate air source or go to the surface. Of course, this is a confined water skill, but I think every skill should be applicable to the open water. I'm first thinking about how to get students off their knees for this one, as I prefer to teach my students to be neutrally buoyant and trim when performing all of their skills.

 

[Rapid Star]

I think while we are all mulling over the various techniques and methods of dealing with a free flow, a key point is being missed especially when it comes to newer divers such as myself and that is panic! No matter the effectiveness of any one method if the person panics and loses control of the situation then it really becomes a mute point as they will no longer be thinking clearly or rationally. Being recently certified myself I know not much in the way of dealing with panic or unexpected emergencies is taught either in the pool or open water. No that may not be true of all instructors but it was true of what I went thru. Those first few seconds of any emergency are critical, if they are wasted in panic or confusion then the situation will spiral out of control.

 

[Bob DBF]

I think while we are all mulling over the various techniques and methods of dealing with a free flow, a key point is being missed especially when it comes to newer divers such as myself and that is panic!

That is why you, as a new diver, should know your emergency procedures and limit your depth until you have the experience to use them deeper. For a new diver the basic procedure is to go to their buddy to resolve it or surface with him, or if your buddy is gone just surface in a controlled manor if at all possible. For a freeflow just keep it simple, get help from your buddy first, If he is not available sip the reg on the way to the surface. As long as you dive NDL, the surface is your friend, a controlled surface is better than an emergency surface, and the deeper you go the more involved an issue can become.

Panic loves divers without a plan, once you run out of alternatives you are left to think about your eminent demise, and that will not get you out of your predicament.



Bob