PADI-Sipping Air Free Flow?

[Lorenzoid]

Hey, not just "newer divers." A method of dealing with a problem that a diver can execute confidently--however technically inelegant or inefficient it may be--can serve a diver well throughout his career. Keep it simple!

 

[cerich]

GUE Fundamentals teaches the diver at the OW/Rec/single-tank level to be capable of manipulating his valve. However, the main reason given for this skill is in case the valve is inadvertently turned off, and the diver needs to turn it back on. I vaguely recall asking an instructor whether this could also be a good way to deal with a free flow, and the answer being that it's not. In the event of a free flow, I would call the dive and ascend with my buddy, breathing off my buddy's donated reg.

I disagree with that approach, it is very rare indeed that a free flowing second is so violent that you can't still breath off it normally during your assent. certainly it is a very good idea to get in position to receive a donated reg from your team mate but immediately taking gas from the team is wasting the usable gas you have. Breath from your reg (if possible..and IMHO the PADI method is not ideal, why use another hand to breath when excess gas in the second stage is going to come out the exhaust valve anyhow?) , get in position to receive donated gas and make your assent. Upon surfacing immediately establish positive buoyancy) (inflate wing/bcd, dump weights if needed) and if the reg is still going mad freeflow shut tank valve off. (after positive buoyancy is achieved and stable). using your teams gas before it is needed takes away options

 

[cerich]

I disagree with that approach, it is very rare indeed that a free flowing second is so violent that you can't still breath off it normally during your assent. certainly it is a very good idea to get in position to receive a donated reg from your team mate but immediately taking gas from the team is wasting the usable gas you have. Breath from your reg (if possible..and IMHO the PADI method is not ideal, why use another hand to breath when excess gas in the second stage is going to come out the exhaust valve anyhow?) , get in position to receive donated gas and make your assent. Upon surfacing immediately establish positive buoyancy) (inflate wing/bcd, dump weights if needed) and if the reg is still going mad freeflow shut tank valve off. (after positive buoyancy is achieved and stable). using your teams gas before it is needed takes away options

For technical diving in a overhead obviously you will have more personal redundancy and I would immediately shut down offending reg and breath from another (my)gas source, because a freeflowing reg can impact visibility quite badly in overhead environments like caves and wrecks) as well as waste gas. The process I outlined in above thread is for single tank non overhead non deco type diving

 

[Lorenzoid]

using your teams gas before it is needed takes away options

What "options" might a rec diver need to avail himself of? As a rec diver, you deal with this kind of problem by ascending to the surface, and you should be carrying enough gas to do a normal ascent while sharing gas.

 

[cerich]

What "options" might a rec diver need to avail himself of? As a rec diver, you deal with this kind of problem by ascending to the surface, and you should be carrying enough gas to do a normal ascent while sharing gas.

normally when a person has a unexpected issue their RMV goes up, factors of 2-3 not unusual. If the freeflow was to occur closer to the end of the dive, and/or at deepest point the possibility exists that the OOA diver could be breathing fast enough that he/she drains the donors cylinder, thus you have two divers OOA. Plus, most find ascending without being all tangled up in another diver easier to control. (even with a7 ft hose)

The team mate is ready to donate, and is in a better position to retain situational awareness when not donating, so why donate when it isn't needed?

 

[Rapid Star]

You are quite right Bob, and as a new diver I have no business doing or going anywhere beyond what I was trained for irregardless of how "comfortable" or "confident" I may feel at the time. Sadly I think that is not always the case nor are the rules always strictly adhered to especially with someone who is over confident in their abilities or "just has to see that wreck at 90 feet" in spite of just being newly OW certified. No one really knows how they will react in an emergency and experience certainly helps someone to remain calm and take the appropriate actions, like you said once you panic and run out of alternatives the situation just goes from bad to worse at a blinding speed.

 

[Lorenzoid]

normally when a person has a unexpected issue their RMV goes up, factors of 2-3 not unusual. If the freeflow was to occur closer to the end of the dive, and/or at deepest point the possibility exists that the OOA diver could be breathing fast enough that he/she drains the donors cylinder, thus you have two divers OOA. Plus, most find ascending without being all tangled up in another diver easier to control. (even with a7 ft hose)

I guess that's why GUE teaches that all these things go hand-in-hand as a "system." So, for example, if you train to handle free-flows by sharing gas and ascending to the surface, then you are also expected to have enough gas for the two of you to make a normal ascent under stressed RMV at any time during the dive.

Reality, of course, may be different. It's hard to do a 100 foot dive on an Al 80 if you adhere rigidly to "minimum gas" (aka "rock bottom") philosophy.

 

[Storker]

the surface is your friend, a controlled surface is better than an emergency surface

This is more or less my mantra when I'm diving (strictly NDL, obviously)...

 

[cerich]

Reality, of course, may be different. It's hard to do a 100 foot dive on an Al 80 if you adhere rigidly to "minimum gas" (aka "rock bottom") philosophy.

agree, and many don't (even GUE/UTD or my own students I suspect)

 

[cerich]

I guess that's why GUE teaches that all these things go hand-in-hand as a "system." So, for example, if you train to handle free-flows by sharing gas and ascending to the surface, then you are also expected to have enough gas for the two of you to make a normal ascent under stressed RMV at any time during the dive.

have GUE changed the philosophy of scale-ability of system from rec to tech? If the diver is taught to go on a donated reg in the event of freeflow at the rec level, won't they also go to do so at cave/tech? That would be a very poor approach. We don't isolate a free flow reg and go to a donated long hose, we dive our gas on us until we have none. Mind you it's been 16 years since I did any GUE stuff...