sytech:I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on the following:
What type of "oversight" or regulations do the main certification Agencies (PADI, NAUI, SSI etc.) require of dive shops that use their name and offer courses in their name?
I'll try to help from the PADI side of things here. If a shop advertises a particular course as being offered as a PADI course, then that instructor or shop MUST offer it according to the PADI standards for that course
sytech:For example if "Joe's Scuba Shop" in Ft. Lauderdale offers the "PADI Advanced OW Certification" course can one be assured that if they were to take that same course in the Bahamas or Aruba that the course requirements and the course materials would be the same?
You would be correct in that statement.
sytech:The reason I ask is that there appear to be a very "loose" affiliation requirements between the Agencies and many dive shops outside of the USA at least. I am getting the impression that the "affiliation" is really mostly based upon financial considerations and not much more. Duh.
The standards are the same no matter where the course is taught.
sytech:I realize that and in and of itself it's not a problem as long as the course is presented by a competent instructor who has experience commensurate with what it is he's teaching. I recently took a NAUI Nitrox Course and the shop owner gave me the price for the course and we agreed to start on a certain date (a few months ago). When I got to the class I asked for the course materials (a booklet, a little chart of dive tables, a DVD anything). Nothing.
The owner said that if I wanted "course materials" they would cost extra. I guess I shouldn't have assumed that so basic a concept as "taking a course" could be done without "course materials" (I'm not talking about a piece of gear either. A pamphlet, a booklet anything!). The course itself was on the expensive side (compared to prices for other Certification Agencies' Nitrox course). The guy was clearly trying to con me . There was no IANTD or SSI on the island. Only PADI and no thanks) but I did want to take the NAUI course.
This is completely up to the shop or the instructor (if he is an independent) as to how to market the course. Some include the course materials, some don't. Some will charge for everything a la carte (including confined water time, gear, course materials, EVERYTHING). This is the reason that I state what is covered in the course cost when you sign up for a course with me
sytech:So, when I started raising objections about the price of the course being so high yet with NO "course materials" included he began to change his tune. He promised me 2 DVD's which he had someone burn at the last minute on their computers. They are both of no use (blurry images on one, unreadable files on the other) and are not "NAUI" products.
This would be a violation of PADI standards had the course been a PADI course. Each student is REQUIRED to have a personal copy of the course materials, and they have to be the PADI materials
sytech:On another matter (which I posted to this board about a week ago) I'm going to Cozumel in a few days and would like to have my NAUI Nitrox Cert. Card. The dive shop had sent the proof of my having taken the course to NAUI which the latter received at the end of February. They then issued the card and sent it to the Dive Shop in Columbia "because that is what the instructor requested". Oh, I live in New Jersey.
When I asked a rep. at NAUI why it was sent to Columbia "because that is what the instructor requested" she said the reason for this is that "the Dive shop bought a 'product' from NAUI"(the Nitrox course I suppose) and they have the prerogative of determining where the card is sent. I told her that I had also bought a "product" which was the NAUI Nitrox Course. Foolishly I never told her that the guy didn't include any course materials. That was a mistake on my part.
I would contact the shop and ask them to send the card to the mailing address that they have on record for the student.
sytech:To sum it all up: Besides paying the certification agency for the use of their name and logo what do these agencies actually do to make sure that the dive shops using their "name" adhere to some uniform set of course criteria?
In the case of PADI, they do send out random questionnaires to students asking about the quality of the course. If they get them back with somewhat disparaging responses, then they will either contact the dive center or instructor to hear that side of the story. They also have begin tracking the # of orders that a shop or an instructor makes for course materials and the number of students that a shop or instructor certifies... Theoretically, it should be close to 1:1, not 1:6.
sytech:Makes me wanna stay with YMCA because their courses are quite rigorous (my basic OW course was much more demanding than the PADI Advanced OW course) and they don't have the type of "degree mill" mentality that might be found elsewhere.
Problem is YMCA courses are very hard to find outside of the USA.
And no "it doesn't all depend on the instructor". Just as Harvard cultivates a certain mindset compared to a local community college I think the same can be said of certification agencies. That's not to say that all Harvard grads are geniuses and all community college grads are "less bright". However "on average" it certainly is true.
Having never taken a YMCA course ( I have taken NAUI and PADI courses), I can't say whether or not this is true. I can say though that when I teach a course, you have certainly earned your certification in whatever course you are taking from me.
sytech:Any comments will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Sy
I hope that this helps you out Sy from the PADI side of things.
Randy